bonanza 4831 458 win mag cast bullet data

[12slugger]

looking for info on using this powder for plinking with a 458 win mag mauser action heavy barrel target rifle any experience or suggestions appreciated, ( I have 30 pounds) and I dont want to sell it, I believe its h4831 its in 1 pound cans marked bonanza, thanks for the help

[L Ross]

Ah c'mon guys, Felix, Larry Gibson? 12 Slugger and I were hashing this over on the phone. Is there a way to use surplus 4831 in a .458 Win Mag with some COW and a mag rifle primer to set it off under a 400 gr too hard commercially cast bullet? My rationale was that 4831 is too slow obviously for optimal performance but that isn't what we're looking for. He has a BUNCH of Bonanza labeled 4831 from Fairbault, MN that I suspect was surplus back when TW was loading for the military. He also has some cast 400 gr bullets that are harder'n wood pecker lips. I thought the COW would prevent leading, the compression and a mag primer would get the 4831 to burn and he'd end up with something to rock the steel swingers at his 100 yard personal range.
What we're looking for is actual experience, or am I just barkin' up the wrong tree entirely?

Duke

[Bullshop]

If you have access to an Accurate Arms load manual it should list loads with their AA #3100 powder which is about the same if not exactly the same powder.
Also look at the 45/2.5" (45/90) which is pretty much what a 458 mag is just with a belt instead of a rim.
What you will most likely see with that boolit weight is velocities and pressures in the BP range.
There will be plenty of unburned powder left in the barrel unless you develope a load with a kicker charge to push it out.
If I go digging I may find more specific load info I have developed but it is not convenient for me at the moment.

[Bent Ramrod]

You are in kind of unknown territory here, but you might check Ken Waters' writeups on the .45-70 cartridge. He was able to use a loading that bulked up well in the case under cast boolits for a mild loading which offered no danger of a double charge. IIRC, he stated that in a cylindrical case under a cast boolit, 4831 burned in a different manner than it did in a bottlenecked case under a jacketed bullet.

I tried his suggested load in a replica Sharps Carbine, and it was as he said it was. There was a lot of unburned powder to blow out of the barrel and chamber between shots, but it was accurate and low pressured, at least from the primer and extraction indications. I quit using the load because it seemed to be a lot of wasted powder that could be more effectively used in my .270. By that time, 4831 was no longer the cheap surplus stuff that it was when Waters bought his supply. I went back to smaller charges of faster burning powders (looking carefully at charge levels before seating boolits) and eventually to black powder.

You could experiment with loadings of this sort in the cylindrical .458 cartridge, if that is what you want to do.

[swheeler]

I would start with published IMR 4831 data for the 510 gr bullet, shoot a few and see what you get.

[12slugger]

Thanks alot fellas, I will do a little research along these lines, and really appreciate the advice

[swheeler]

IMR Handloaders guide

458 WM, win case, win 8.5-120 pr, win 510 gr sp
IMR 4831 72.0 Compressed, 1680 fps, 24900 CUP


Substituting H4831 should lower velocity and pressure slightly, the heavier cast bullet(than the 400's you have) would help ignition and burn cleaner, try what you have and report back.

[texassako]

I thought I found something for you using 60gr of H4831 under a 393gr boolit and 58gr with a 502gr boolit, but it also said unacceptably low velocity at 1144 and 1120 out of a Win M70. The article is in Handloader mag #92, but I don't have it just the data.

[bobthenailer]

Ive had excellent accuracy from my 45/70 rifle with 4831 powder and a 540 gr saeco cast bullet! 2 1/2 inch 25 shot group @200 yards ,using a 6.5x20 Leupold.

[Bullshop]

Yea it will work good if you have enough boolit in front of it. The OP said he has 400gn boolits he wants to use up. I doubt that 400gn is enough boolit to get the same results as your 540gn boolit.
That is why I said I think he will need a kicker charge to keep the barrel free of unburned powder.
You can blow or wipe between shots but still sometimes some powder kernals will stay in the chamber and cause chambering issues and dented cases.
I speak from experiance.