My Trapdoor Loads, Technique and Equipment

[Larry Gibson]

Had a request to talk about my M1873 Trapdoor 45-70 loads, hope I don’t bore you…..

My experience with the TD (I’ll refer the M1873 rifle in that generic term) started back in the late ‘60s when Tex Shively (a very colorful individual who was a main pro gun advocate in Oregon fighting the anti gunners back in the ‘60s and ‘70s.) who had a fairly extensive collection which included a couple nice TDs. Tex was also a “shooter” who mostly shot BP but occasionally didn’t mind smokeless powder loads and always wanted a few boxes of cartridges for all his cartridge guns. In conversations he decided, since I cast bullets and had a 400 gr .458 mould that I should load some up for his 45-90 (a very nice Remington Hepburn) and a M1873 TD rifle. He provided all the necessary cases and several lbs of Dupont 3f and 2F and a box (100) of Frankford Arsenal made 500 gr bullets (yes I know collectors but he had a case of them!).

My 1st attempts with the 45-70 involved the Lyman 457124s I had cast of WWs + lead (don’t remember the proportion. These were also sized with a .457 H die (only one I had) and hand lubed with Crisco. I loaded them over 70 gr of the 3F in some old UMC case Tex had provided. Compression of the powder proved necessary and I turned down a ½” dowel to a slip fit in the cases, chucked in my drill press and compressed the powder. Seemed like a lot to me at the time but Tex said the original loads were heavily compressed. First shot at 50 yards was high but on target above 6” bull and I thought I was on a roll……next 2 shots keyholed and the last 2 didn’t even hit the paper! I cleaned the bore and had streaks of leading come out. I had also loaded 5 round of the 2F under the 500 gr arsenal bullet. I shot those and had an excellent 1 ½” or so group at 12 o’clock 8” out of the bull! On cleaning the bore there was no leading at all! I was perplexed to say the least.

I was shooting at the Four Corners R&G Club in Salem, Oregon. An older gentleman (I was 21-22 at the time so most were “older”) saw the TD in the rack and asked what I was shooting in it. When I described the loads he said to mic the arsenal bullets and even try a larger bullet to .462 or so if the mould would cast that big. He also said to use beeswax and tallow for lube and use a softer alloy of 20-1 lead – tin. I went home and checked the arsenal bullets and they mic’d .459 - .460 and the alloy was indeed softer than what I used. I cast some 457124s with 20-1 and they ran .458 – 459. I mixed up some lube on the kitchen stove and the wife told me in no uncertain terms that was the last time for such on her stove! I loaded up those bullets over the same 70 gr 3F load as before. The 5 shot test string went into less than 2” at 50 yards, once again pretty high out of the black at 50 yards. Another test string of the Arsenal bullets replicated the 1st.

I went home, loaded up 20 rounds of each and went back to the range the next day. I put up a V bull “A” target at 200 yards and shot the 2 test loads cleaning the barrel between loads. The 457124s Shot right at the bull size for 15 shots but the group was centered at 12 o’clock on the bullet. The last 5 shots open the group by 5” or so. I cleaned the barrel and found no leading. The test load with the 500 gr arsenal bullets was very good holing the V bull with several Vs! I was ecstatic and Tex was very pleased and had me load an additional 100 rounds of the 400 gr bullets and the rest of the 500 gr bullets.

The Remington Hepburn rifle was an “express” rifle for the 45-90 with 300 gr patched bullets. I loaded 20 cases with 90 gr of the 3F and put the 457124s over that. Tex took them and tested them and told me they shot really well but he patched the bore between shots and shot all 10 into 2” at 100 yards. He said that was close enough and had me load up the 50 or 60 45-90 cases he had. I used a standard 3 die set of RCBS 45-70 dies to load both cartridges. I simply backed out the 45-70 dies to load the 45-90s. That ended my 1st foray into BP cartridge loading and loads for the 45-70.

A few years later I moved east of the mountains to LaGrande, Oregon. While there I built a 45-70 on a Siamese Mauser Action (still have it) and thus began my second foray into loading cast bullets for the 45-70. I initially used the 457124 bullet and had picked up a .459 H die for sizing and lubing. Even cast hard of linotype I found accuracy to get very poor very quickly over 1500 – 1600 fps. I also had my 1st Oehler chronograph (M33 with M11 Skyscreens) along about that time so the velocities are measured not guessed at. I picked up a 457 483 mould which is essentially the 457124 with a GC. I quickly found these to be very accurate up through 2300 fps which was way above TD load levels. I mention it here only to show that I had quite a bit more experience with the 45-70 before I got the next TD.

Another old gentleman, from the LaGrande Rifle & Pistol Club saw me shooting the Mauser at the range one day and said he had a nice TD he’d let me develop loads for if I wanted to. Of course I said “yes” and he brought the M1884 over to my house that evening. He also had a phone number to a guy back in Kansas (he thought) who was collecting TDs and was thought to be developing BP loads for the TD. The guys name was Spence Wolf. I talked to Spence a couple times and he freely gave me the info he had at that time. Said he was just starting to develop original government loads for the TD. He was real interested in my previous work. I replicated my original loads with the 457124 and they shot just as well in the M1884 TD. Unfortunately before I could do much the old gentleman died and I returned the TD to the estate. It would be quite a few years before I got back into TDs…….and I lost touch with Spence.

In the interim I did some load development with some 250 gr 45 Colt bullets that had been copper plated and left in the tank too long as they were .458 diameter. I also PP’d Keith .454 SWCs. I was using Unique and never really got a satisfactory load. At the time I blamed it on the bullet but time and additional knowledge proved the bullet was fine. The problem was Unique was still too slow burning and by the time I got it burning well the velocity was too much for the bullet. I had not yet learned the virtue of a faster more easily ignitable powder for such lighter weight cast bullets in larger case capacity cartridges.

Then in ’91 I began reading in gun pubs about a book soon to be published about loading cartridges for the original 45-70 TD. It was authored by none other than Spence Wolf and his wife Pat. It was published in late ’91 and I got a copy as soon as I could. Still have that copy which is pretty dog eared and a 3rd edition also. Reading Spence’s work in his book; Loading Cartridges For The Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle And Carbine proved to be a revelation. It also sparked a renewed interest in not only reduced loads for my Mauser 45-70 but also for loading for the TD also. Wasn’t too long found me acquiring a M1884 that had been restocked with a sporter/target stock, an H&R Officer’s Model and a n H&R LBH Carbine. I also recontacted Spence and had several additional interesting conversations with him. Unfortunately as the cancer progressed I lost contact and he passed away late in ’93.

I had replicated the service loads as per his instructions in his very fine and much to be recommended book. I also refined those loads for more accurate target use in the target M1884 I had. I discussed that with him and he had no problem as he and I both understood the difference of what he did and what I did. His loads also shot very, very well in both the H&Rs. Unfortunately we lost him as I was getting in smokeless load development with not only the M1873 bullet and the M1882 bullet but also with lighter weight bullets also. There was much information in his book to give me a good start. I shall explain my loads, loading technique and the equipment I use. But lets us please not forget and let us give credit to the two very fine gentlemen who really got me started; Tex Shively and Spence Wolf.

To be continued as soon as I put it down to “electron” and post it………

Larry Gibson

[M-Tecs]

Very nice. Thanks and looking forward to installment two.

[Chill Wills]

Can you expand on what you have when you describe

"The Remington Hepburn Sharps was an “express” rifle for the 45-90 with 300 gr patched bullets." ?
What is a Remington Hepburn Sharps?

Thanks, -Chill

[oldfart1956]

Larry I can't thank you enough for starting this post. I usually check in twice a day but may have to up that to 3. Please be sure to include the "little details" and any mods you've made as well. I'm pounding the backstops with an 1884 at present and always looking for more info. Thanks! Audie...the Oldfart

[rbertalotto]

Great post! Thanks..........Keep it coming!

[MikeS]

Larry, great info! I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that shot pistol boolits in the 45-70. In my case I shot the 255gr Webley HB boolit as cast from a Mihec mould. I cast them from range scrap that had a BHN of 10-11 or so, and unsized they were dropping right at .457 - .458 (.002 - .003 larger than the mould's nominal .255 diameter), I pan lubed them with my BP lube, then loaded them with 45gr FFFg then filled the rest of the case with PSB buffer right up to the case neck, and used the boolit to compress the powder/buffer. I can't say how accurate they were as I wasn't having a good day when I was at the range, offhand I did manage to keep them all on the target at 25 yards. When I got home and cleaned the rifle there wasn't any leading, so I'm pretty sure the boolits were large enough as my rolling block has a kind of tight bore right around .4565 or so. One thing that surprised me was that when shooting those loads that along with the smoke & sparks that are normal with black powder, the PSB buffer was clearly visible as it left the bore!

The next time I make it to the range I'm going to try some of those in the Enfield I just got, then I'll know for sure if the boolit expands to fill the bore or not as it seems to have a larger bore than my rolling block, although I've yet to slug it. I figure I'll try some of my existing loads sized to .458 and see how they shoot. If I have problems, then I'll slug the bore, but if they shoot good without leading, then I won't bother slugging it.

[Doc Highwall]

Great write up as usual Larry. I also have a copy of Spence Wolf book and recommend it highly.

[Larry Gibson]

Can you expand on what you have when you describe

"The Remington Hepburn Sharps was an “express” rifle for the 45-90 with 300 gr patched bullets." ?
What is a Remington Hepburn Sharps?

Thanks, -Chill

Ya know when writing something like this I was going a bit off memory as most everyone does. I didn't, don't keep a diary of everything I did or do, especially back then. If you'll check Sharpe's The Rifle in America on page 292 you'll find a description of the Remington-Hepburn No. 3 Plain Sporting Rifle Introduced 1880 Discontinued 1907. There are probably other books with more detailed descriptions along with pictures but Phil Sharpe's book is the one I have handy. That one of Tex's was the only such rifle I've handled and had the pleasure to shoot. Were that rifle available today in the condition it was then I'm sure I could not afford to buy it.

As to the "express", note it is quotations. In days of yester year to gain velocity with BP lighter weight bullets were used in larger capacity cases (like the 45-90) and the barrels most often had a slower twist. PP'd bullets were most often used. Such rifles were genericly refered to as "express" rifles because most of the ammo so loaded were called "express" cargridges. Sort of the "magnum" of the day.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

oldfart1956

As you know I'm not claiming to be the expert here as many other shoot their TDs with very good results. Spence and Pat's book is the best reference for such. It also is excellent reference for BP and smokeless loads at TD levels in 45-70s. I'm just going to tell how I refined Spence's work with the knowledge and techniques we use for better accuracy with cast bullets today. We've learned a lot since the M1873 45-70 cartridge was developed. I'll include all the details I can but please don't hesitate to ask for more info as I'll certainly give it if I have it. I expect others will also contibute their knowledge and experience. Should be a good thread for all of us.

Larry Gibson

[Chill Wills]

Ya know when writing something like this I was going a bit off memory as most everyone does. I didn't, don't keep a diary of everything I did or do, especially back then. If you'll check Sharpe's The Rifle in America on page 292 you'll find a description of the Remington-Hepburn No. 3 Plain Sporting Rifle Introduced 1880 Discontinued 1907. There are probably other books with more detailed descriptions along with pictures but Phil Sharpe's book is the one I have handy. That one of Tex's was the only such rifle I've handled and had the pleasure to shoot. Were that rifle available today in the condition it was then I'm sure I could not afford to buy it. OK, I was not sure what you were trying to say. But maybe a Hepburn in Sharps 2-4/10". When ever I see 'Hepburn" in print I perk up. I am on the 12 step Hepburn program. I own more than can be admitted to. Don't get me wrong as I see and understand your use of Sharps and Remington together. As an example, Chevy Impala Ford might need some clarification too.

As to the "express", note it is quotations. In days of yester year to gain velocity with BP lighter weight bullets were used in larger capacity cases (like the 45-90) and the barrels most often had a slower twist. PP'd bullets were most often used. Such rifles were genericly refered to as "express" rifles because most of the ammo so loaded were called "express" cargridges. Sort of the "magnum" of the day.
Yup, but not my question but Sharps 2-4/10" with 20" twist v Winchester 45-90 - mostly same chamber but with Winchester using 32 in 1 inch Express twist for 300grn bullets.
Larry, thanks for taking the time to compose and write. I keep thinking more of our posts should be in article form with the level of effort that goes with it. Keep them coming.
Larry Gibson

Michael Rix

[oldfart1956]

Larry I ain't much of an "expert" follower. I generally find they tend to be long on theory and short on experience. You, my friend, have the experience. And I hope a lot of the others join in the conversation as well. I also hope this doesn't turn into one of those "only black powder is appropriate" threads as so often happens. I have nothing against black powder...buy it in 25lb. kegs. Hunt almost exclusively with smoothbore flintlocks. You perked my ears up in another post about sub-sonic loads and that's where my quest came from. Like some here I can't handle the recoil associated with full black powder loads and short-stroking the load sets off too many alarms for my likeing. Don't want to go to lighter boolits. The 405's shoot dandy and I like the long bearing surface. The TD is my paper-punchin' groundhog huntin' gun. I don't need/want T-Rex loads. I'd be tickled pink to be able to just "poot em'" out there a ways. I'm gonna kill me a groundhog at 200yds. or a smidge more this summer....if'n I kin get them to stay still till it gits there! And if these old eyeballs kin see em. Now carry on Larry. This is my 4th. trip in here today an I'll be back tonight! Audie...the excited Oldfart...

[Larry Gibson]

PART II:

I’ve decided not to try to follow a chronological order of my load developments for TD loads. That would jump back and forth too much. Instead I’ll focus on the load development for the M1884 target style TD since it has the original 3 groove barrel. Most of those loads also shoot very well in the modern dimensioned H&R TD barrels but I’ll follow up with special loads used in them. An additional requirement for my loads was they could be left loaded for a long period of time and could be carried afield in a “prairie” belt for use on my “walk abouts”.

My conversations with Spence were all too few and to short. Let’s remember that Spence set out to replicate the original TD service and practice loads to which he succeeded very nicely. He also provides some smokeless loads and practice loads in his book. However, Spence was using the loading technique developed to replicate the service loads, i.e. FL sizing, sizing the bullets to .459, etc. It is known now that with bores of .460+ that bumping up from obturation was not conducive to the best accuracy. We also know that FL sizing also most often is not. My tact was to apply modern cast bullet loading methods to Spence’s proven methods to see if I could improve upon them accuracy wise with both service and practice loads while maintaining the velocity of the service loads. I was applying this to BP loads, duplex loads and smokeless loads. My intent was not to cover all possible loads but to develop a practical working load for each type.

I started out simply replicating the loads as noted in Spence’s book. Based on his recommendation I decided to forgo the RCBS dies and get the Lee die set from Wolf Traders. This included the FL die, expander die, compression die and a seating die. Spence was out of the larger expander but that was ok because I could easily make my own. Good thing I could because the Lee expander I got was .450! That would have really sized the softer cast bullets down on seating. I made a new one out of a chunk of Mauser 7x57 barrel that was .4585.

The barrel of my M1884 TD was slugged at .461 and there was the usual very short throat. I had a .459 H die and started out with that and the moulds I had; 457124, 457483, C457-500-FN and the Lee 459-405-HB made for Wolf Traders to replicate the M1873 service bullet. Cast of 20-1 the Lyman’s dropped at .459, the 500 gr Lee at .460 and the 405HB at .464. I size all at .459 and lube them with my own lube (following Spence’s recommendation) using 5 parts beeswax to 4 parts virgin olive oil. I also lubed some with SPG for comparison. I still had some Dupont 3F but also picked up a lb of GOEX 3F and a lb of GOEX Cartridge. I prepped the WW cases exactly as per Spence’s instructions including drilling the flash holes. I used Federal Magnum primers. I loaded 22 cases each with 70 gr by weight of each powder using a Lyman 55 thrower. With 4 raps of the knocker the Lyman threw very consistent charges. Charges were thrown directly into the cases as a drop tube was not needed. Later testing proved the use of a drop tube did not improve the SD/ES of the loads or accuracy. I believe the heavy compression of the load is why. The compression depth was varied so each different bullet could be seated on top of the compressed powder and the case crimped in the correct place.

Testing all over several shooting sessions at 100 yards and chronographing showed velocities in the 1190 – 1300 fps range depending on which bullet was used. Accuracy ran 3 – 5” for the 10 shots after 2 foulers. The target TD has a Pedersoli tang sight and a Lyman front sight. I did not clean or swab the bore at all between test strings. I did use a blow tube though. I found with all 3 PB’d bullets that accuracy held to around 12 - 15 shots and then the groups opened as fouling built up in the barrel. As expected the Dupont 3F fouled quicker with all bullets. The bore did clean easily after each test load and there was no leading. I found no discernable difference between the lubes and have used my lube since for all my BP loads including my muzzle loaders.

Note; My lube is easy to make, last a long time (not had any go bad after several years), works easily in a Lyman 450 lubrasizer and is easy to hand lube bullets with if needed. I have also used it up to 1800 fps without leading and excellent accuracy in other CF rifles and handguns.

Also as expected the GC’d bullets did much better with not only the best accuracy but also holding accuracy the best as the fouling was scraped away much better. However, a GC’d bullet was not what I wanted so I quite testing those and concentrated on the Lee 405 HB bullet. Leaving it as cast and hand lubing it and loading it over the same 70 gr of GOEX Cartridge (it proved to be the better for accuracy) showed an immediate improvement. I switched to 200 yard testing using old 50 yard pistol targets with 8” bulls. I was able to hold the first 15 or so shots of 20 in the black with that load. But an occasional flyer had me wondering if something else wasn’t quite right. Knowing cases that fit the chamber (NS’d) generally give better accuracy I backed the FL die out to just size the neck area enough for a slip fit of the .4585 expander. Accuracy improved it seemed but an occasional pesky flyer still happened.

I then questioned whether the heavy crimp was necessary for complete ignition as Spence describes. A crimp can be useful in some applications but it also can be detrimental to best accuracy in others. I loaded a test string (22 shots) w/o the crimp. I seated the bullet out to engrave the rifling when the breach block was closed. This also called for less compression of the powder charge. All 20 shots for record stayed in the 8” bull with the first 10 staying in the 9 and 10 rings. I was quite pleased with that. I talked with Spence about that load and what I had done and he thought it great. Remember now I diverged from his original purpose so I am detracting nothing from his work. If you want to replicate the original loads then follow Spence’s advice to the “T” as I can’t improve on that at all.

Spence also suggested I get the Rapine 460500 mould which replicates the M82 500 gr service bullet only at a larger diameter. So I got that Rapine mould and it casts up some beautiful bullets! I initially cast them of 20-1 but my research found that after considerable testing in the later ‘80s with that bullet Frankford Arsenal settled on a 16-1 alloy for best long range accuracy. So I switched to a 16-1 alloy also. I also at that time got a Lyman 45 Short NS die and a Redding 45-70 taper crimp die. I used some epoxy on the seating stem of the Lee seater to fit the top of the 460500. Extra seating stems from Lee are reasonable so I also made one to fit the nose of the 405 HB. NS'd fire formed cases and seating the bullet out so 1/3 the front driving band is engraved by the leade obviously increases case capacity which lessened the amount of compression. The lessoned compression is what gives complete ignition in lieu of the heavy crimp in my estimation.

Note on the foulers; with straight BP loads I found as Spence mentions in his book the first 2 shots go high and then the next shots settle in as the barrel is fouled.

Whatever because all of it worked! I have shot numerous 10 shot groups at 200 yards of 2 – 3 moa (4 – 6” groups) with accuracy holding for 16 - 18 shots including the foulers. Cast of 16-1 alloy the 460500s weighed right at 500 gr. They were dropping right at .4615 so I honed the .459 sizer out to just lube the bullets. The 460500 over the 70 gr of GOEX Cartridge were running at 1150 fps with SDs of 3 – 5 and ES of 10 – 13 fps for 10 shot test strings. With 20 shot test strings at about shot 14 or 15 the SD and ES would almost double and get larger after that. Obviously the buildup of fouling was having an effect. While I liked the accuracy potential I did not care for having to clean the barrel (I didn’t have the Swiss and other cleaner burning BPs available at the time) every 15 or so shot to maintain accuracy and then deal with the first two shots going high when on my “walk abouts” as sometimes out in the high desert of the west I would be “confronted” by numerous “hostiles” (sticks, cow pies, pine cones and mostly rocks at various distances) all posed in war paint and ready to charge. Only the rapidity of fire from the breach loader could fend them off……….please allow me my hallucinations…… . I also really didn’t care for the blow tube which really sucked….pun intended!

My last conversation with Spence I went over this with him. His recommendation was to try his duplex loads. I also mentioned wanting to try his gallery loads with some concave based almost pure lead 45 Colt bullets. He said they might work ok but I’d be much happier with the Rapine 460210 HB’d bullet or the 460250 FP bullet which “fit” the TDs much better. I got both of those moulds and Spence was absolutely correct, they are marvelous! I was so impressed with the 460250 I got another one so with two 2 cavity moulds I can really cast a lot of bullets. That was to be my last conversation with Spence as the cancer rapidly (or so it seemed) overtook him. How I regret not knowing that was the last I’d talk with him……so much left unsaid…….

That pretty much sums up the lead in. I was getting the loading technique down and had the equipment so the next parts will begin to get a lot more detailed on specifics and I'll include some pictures. They say a picture is worth a thousand words but fail to mention what kind of words.......

Back to the duplex loads to be followed after that by my gallery loads, small game loads and I'll even discuss my loading of a "forager" shot shell load.……all of which are with smokeless powders. I put the thread on the Single Shot forum to avoid the "holy Black" and smokeless powder is a "passing fad" controversy.........hope it stays avoided as this thread is intended for ALL TD loads; BP and smokeless.

to be continued…….

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Michael Rix

The book I was referring to was by Philip B. Sharpe......not to be confused with the Sharps rifle. I was, in fact, talking about a Remington Hepburn rifle, made by Remington not by Sharp. It was in 45-90 Winchester.....said so on the barrel if I recall correctly. The Remington-Hepburn does not have an under finger lever, it has the lever on the right side of the action. I had no allusions of it being a Sharps as I owned a couple Fords, a couple Impala's and a couple Silverado's over the years........along with other vehicles that I've not mistaken for something else.......however, as time goes by I can't track all the different makes and models anymore........oh well.....

Larry Gibson

[Chill Wills]

Larry, Was just trying to keep it simple while trying to understand. Was not confused by Philip B. Sharpe and Sharps rifle. Just the opposite. I am trying to understand why you have put together Remington Hepburns ( of which I own many and know something about) and Sharps rifles? ( which I have no shortage ) OK?

I do not want to come off as an expert but the only time Remington and Sharps rifle companies even came close to having anything to do with one-an-other was in the early Creedmoor years. LL Hepburn, working for Remington as their design engineer and shooting on the American longrange team shooting the Rollingblock with some of the other riflemen teammates shooting 1874 Sharps pattern rifle and the banter that took place between them.

Now I have done exactly what I did not want to do, disrupt a perfectly good post with a small question gone sideways.

If you are saying "Remington Hepburn Sharps" it is a typo on your part, no problem, Got it. If not ........forget it. I clearly can't follow what you meant by that and I will just read on. Life is good.
Someone else s turn.

[oldfart1956]

Larry I gotta tell ya....this is what I want to read. Love all the background info and the way you bring it to life with the wanderings. Please continue when time allows and keep writing it just the way you're doing. Now just to help you avoid anyone having a stroke about typos....paragraph 4 : I think you meant the 405HB mold was casting .464 perhaps and not .454 ? Paragraph 7 and 10 you made mention of shooting 8 inch bullets.....I think you meant 8 inch targets. See....I do read very closely and I'm not a nitpicker. Meanwhile I'm perched on the edge of this chair! Many thanks! Audie...the Oldfart...

[Don McDowell]

Larry did you try the blackpowder loads without drilling out the flasholes and using a regular large rifle primer instead of the magnums? I've found the fouling to be a touch drier and harder with the magnum primers.
Interesting side note on duplexing, in it's beginnings it was totally opposite of what it is today. When they first duplexed it was using blackpowder to help the milder blackpowder primers ignite the smokeless powders , as the primers during the cross over time that were used in blackpowder were a good bit weaker than the primers used with smokeless. The blackpowder primers would not regularly ignite the smokeless at that time.
Thanks for enlightening the confusion of the

Remington Hepburn Sharps

mentioned in the first post, it was a head scratcher.

[DeadWoodDan]

Larry and others,

I'm ALL on board with this, as I've been scratching together all the components including a second TD modified into a carbine over the last two yrs and hope to be finally firing some rounds this summer. Once i get done working with my M1 carbine development, the TD is next! I already have broke the Lee 405HB mold in and just hoping my alloy will work. I've read S.Wolf's book 2-3 times since purchase and hope to gain more knowledge for my purpose/goals here.

Thanks
DWD

[Doc Highwall]

Two things I want to mention. First there is a group buy for a 2 cavity 405 grain HB bullet made by MiHec that is available in two diameters, I am going to get the larger .462 diameter myself.
This is a 2 cavity mould and will be available with extra pins to change it into a flat base bullet. Check it out under active/open group buys, it should be just the thing for black powder in your trap door.

In the Speer reloading manual #14 edition, Chapter 13 Black Powder Cartridge Performance: A New Look at an Old Art. There is a mention of Spencer Wolf’s reaming the flash holes to .096” and the pressure test they did with black powder. The test was a short one but the test showed the averaged velocity and pressure remained unchanged, but the extreme spread was lower with the .096” modified flash hole and that standard primers worked better then magnum primers. They even show a pressure trace for the two 10 shot strings and they said it would warrant additional investigation and I would recommend reading it as they show tests with different brands and granulations of powder.

[Don McDowell]

I might be mistaken, but it's thought that Wolfs enlarging the flasholes was an attempt to replicate the amount of flame to the powder that came from the 2 and 3 flashole's available from the old Berdan primers.
I know from my own chronograph tests that using large pistol primers will make for very small spreads with blackpowder, and some smokeless like 2400 and 5744 that don't use a large charge amount anyway.

[Doc Highwall]

Don, you are right about the two flash holes from the inside Bennet ? spelling priming and the area is about equal to a single .096” flash hole.

From what I learned from Wolfs book is the about the bad accuracy he got from his hand loads with a TD and then finding and shooting original black powder Govt. loads and the much greater accuracy that he got with them. He said he had a few misfires because of the age of them that he broke them down to discover what made them shoot so much better then his hand loads. We have to be thank full that he put all of his research into a book making it easy for the rest of us.

Just think I am going back to school and where is that, on the Springfield Armory grounds. I don’t think it will take too much to convince me to visit more often.