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Thread: Powders for 300 Blackout in Bolt Action

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    Powders for 300 Blackout in Bolt Action

    My eyes are bloodshot from reading forums and searching the internet, and I still have no good loading data for the 300 Blackout in Bolt Action Rifles.

    I will be shooting a Remington XR-100 with a 27" Bartlein barrel with a 1:8 twist. I have some Remington 221 Fireball brass coming to fire form. I may pick up some LC 5.56 reformed brass later for comparison.

    I have Lee molds in 120 gr. and 170 gr. from other projects. I am looking for a mold in the 200 to 250 gr. range, but you guys know my chances there.

    Everything that I have found was either for J-word or if it was data for cast, it was for AR platform rifles.

    Anyone out there shooting the 300 Blackout in an old fashioned Bolt Action Rifle or know where I can find data? I really need help with powder selection and minimum/maximum loads.

    Thanks,
    Bill
    Sometimes I sits and thinks, Sometimes I just sits

  2. #2
    Boolit Master in Heavens Range
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    Your post has me really puzzled. You have enough knowledge, or the ability to obtain same, to acquire a Bartlein barrel, and most especially a barrel having an 8 twist. The objective for a barrel like this is to make for an extremely quiet round and, again most especially, to support a silencer. Bartlein is the premier BR barrel maker today. ... felix
    felix

  3. #3
    Boolit Master DeanWinchester's Avatar
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    I have a savage 110 I built. I went with a 10 twist. These super fast twists are kinda whizz bang gimmicky to me. Mine will stabilize a 85g tokarev bullet and group just as well with a 235g cast. I have yet to feed mine anything and not group very well.

    A for powders, I've tried lots of stuff. RX7, bullseye, AA#5, Universal, Unique, Lil'gun, H110, SMP842 and a couple others I can't remember off the top of my head. About the lightest load I've tried is 4.0g of Bullseye under a Lee 100g .311 boolit. I'd say the hottest thing I've tried was some Sierra soft points. I used Lil'gun but won't post that data. Needless to say, there's no more room in the case. Certainly NOT safe for just any gun. I've been tempted to get some AA#9 or #7 and try that out. I much prefer the savage to an AR. I'd literally have to fill the case with bullseye or something to get in trouble. Such a little case in such large action gives a big safety net for trying things out of the box. It's certainly no excuse for doing something foolish but it let's play around a good bit.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master TCTex's Avatar
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    Does this help??


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    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote

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  5. #5
    Boolit Master TCTex's Avatar
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    I have the data for the heavier bullets, but it is currently not with me...


    Duane
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote

    Benjamin Franklin

  6. #6
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    Springfield's Avatar
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    Forgive what might be a newbie type question, but why can't AR loaded ammo be run through a bolt gun?
    http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/

  7. #7
    Boolit Master timspawn's Avatar
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    I am shooting an AR and an H&R single shot. Lil Gun is great in both. It should do the same in your bolt gun. A1680 is also a very popular choice.

  8. #8
    Boolit Man
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    Thanks all for the input, but let me be a little more specific. I want to shoot boolits on the heavy end in subsonic velocities. I have AA1680, AA5744, and IMR4227; which all have gotten exposure in the forums. I have too many other powders on hand, but these seem to be likely candidates. Anyone got any specific charge weights for the Lee 120 and 170 grain boolit and. for when I can locate one, a 200 gr.

    Felix- I can't take any credit here. Some of my shooting buddies are very dedicated BR students. My experience comes mostly in single action revolver and straight wall cases in Rollers, Hi Walls, and Falling Block. I am learning BPCR, and I am getting my feet wet in PP.

    This whole Blackout project really intrigues me, but information on shooting subsonic with cast is pretty hard
    to come by.

    Bill
    Sometimes I sits and thinks, Sometimes I just sits

  9. #9
    Boolit Master TCTex's Avatar
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    Bill, I have published data for sub's, but it will be this weekend before I can get to it...
    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote

    Benjamin Franklin

  10. #10
    Boolit Master hicard's Avatar
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    Bill. One load I have for the 311299 205 gr bullet is 16.7 grs of 1680 at 1605 fps at 2.196 oal, 41993 psi and 1172 fpe out of a 16.5" barrel. Try 19 grs of 1680 for the 120 gr (1900 fps) and 18 grs for the 140 gr (1845 fps).
    This country has gone to hell!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master in Heavens Range
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    Because you have a bolt gun, Bill, you are in fat city to play subsonic. Your powder choices will be even slower and much more variable in choice than what you have shown for 200 grainers and on up. Always fill the case up with powder for this subsonic application for two reasons: 1) to minimize any SEE condition to about zero chance; 2) to gain the most consistency in the boolits' acceleration curve. As you prolly know, long barrels play havoc with vibration control making it difficult (and mucho' fun) to find the correct acceleration curve for both low noise and point of impact accuracy. Change powders back and forth until the proper balance is found. Don't forget, each powder has a lot number which makes each one different enough in this situation to affect the desired objective: finding the accuracy control point in terms of velocity and accuracy. Start the game with a bunch of powders slower than 4227 and your heavy boolit of choice. ... felix

    Make darn sure you use your most accurate tools to measure case expansion at the case head after each shot. Any variance there will indicate bad cases or load(s) too hot for the gun/case combo. We are talking full-case powder loads here. Final load would be something less than 0.0005 case expansion on each shot within the group. ... felix
    Last edited by felix; 03-12-2013 at 10:22 AM.
    felix

  12. #12
    Boolit Master



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    Low velocity in a bolt gun with heavies. I bet Bullseye would work very well.
    It tends to work in most other rifles for low velocity.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have been shooting a 300/221 in a bolt gun for almost a decade. A couple of things.
    1. You don't need 27" of barrel
    2. I have had success with H110 and the NOE 247 Boolit
    Killed this buck last season


    3. I am beginning testing with the Lee 230 5R sold by midway. PM me your address and I'll send you some to try along with some NOE's I got from another caster.
    Last edited by Pmc; 03-12-2013 at 12:42 PM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Man
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    felix - Thanks for the advice. I will make a note of that. In straight wall cases, I have never worried about filling the case. Is that something inherent to all bottle neck cases with cast or just the 300 Blackout and similar cases?

    Springfield - You can use an AR load in a bolt action rifle, but it probably will not be the rifle's most accurate load/boolit combo. You have variables such as barrel length affecting burn rate, gas siphoning off to operate the bolt, overall length for each chamber, etc. All of these variables have an effect on velocity and accuracy. For best accuracy, you need to develop a load for each rifle.

    TCTex - I will look forward to seeing your info.

    I did get lucky today. Midsouth Shooters Supply had a Lyman 311284 210 gr in stock, so I ordered it. As soon as Midway, Midsouth, and Graf ship, I will get started. Remember the "old days" when we could place an order with just one supplier?

    One other thing. I know there are several subscription sites out there compiling load data. Anyone have experience with one that is good with cast boolit loads. Every time I get a new rifle or want to change boolits, it is tough sometimes to find load data.

    Thanks,
    Bill
    Sometimes I sits and thinks, Sometimes I just sits

  15. #15
    Boolit Master



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    I have some 160gr loads with H110 to try, but haven't yet so I will refrain from posting, but I did follow the guidance on the Hodgdon's calculator, with some interpolation to match my boolit and bullet weights.
    Blackout is a variant/clone of the .300 Whisper, there is a bit more load data out there for Whisper. I researched that too when considering loads, always with the understanding of loading 10-20% below stated max and working up.
    As was already stated, a bolt is easier to load for. We don't have to worry about cycling and such.

    Please post your results, I'm curious myself.

    Bulldogger

  16. #16
    Boolit Master in Heavens Range
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    Bill, if you keep friends with your BR buddies, you will have enough confidence in time to build your own loads, and from scratch too. It does take a memory bank of how different powders perform , in what case capacities, and with various bore expansions. This takes time to adsorb and you should go slowly and positively in comprehension.

    Filling the case is the majority rule for the best/safest loads across the board. Generally, start with the slowest and work to the fast applicable powder for the "load". With your 221 case capacity, and bore expansion of a .308 with heavy boolit, you will be entirely safe with pressure starting with H380 and working up the speed ladder to 4198-small-cut inclusive. Do NOT compress SMOKELESS powders is another general purpose rule. The converse for true Black Powder. ... felix
    Last edited by felix; 03-12-2013 at 04:03 PM.
    felix

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    27 inches is a lot of barrel for this round.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pmc View Post
    I have been shooting a 300/221 in a bolt gun for almost a decade. A couple of things.
    1. You don't need 27" of barrel
    2. I have had success with H110 and the NOE 247 Boolit
    Killed this buck last season
    <image snipped>

    3. I am beginning testing with the Lee 230 5R sold by midway. PM me your address and I'll send you some to try along with some NOE's I got from another caster.
    I'd be interested in that load, how much H110 do you load with the 247?

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    8.8 gr of H110 produced right at 1040 fps.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pmc View Post
    8.8 gr of H110 produced right at 1040 fps.
    Looks like about 10% below jacketed for 230gr. This is where I started when loading the accurate 310240E(drops 245gr). No chrono but it stayed subsonic in 16" Remington 700sps til I got to 9.2grs with COL of 2.11. I save h110 for supers in an AR now, it's not so easy to find in these trying times. Using unique and a1680 for the heavies.
    I support your right to keep and arm bears.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check