Titan ReloadingGraf & SonsMidSouth Shooters SupplyRotoMetals2
Ballisti-CastLee PrecisionInline FabricationStainLess Steel Media
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: lyman ideal full length shell resizer question

  1. #1

    lyman ideal full length shell resizer question

    I picked up an old lyman ideal hammer/vice die to go with my lee loader in 6.5x55. If any of you have used these i'm hoping you can help me out. New unfired cases go in easily and stop when the neck gets to the narrow part of the die. This leaves about 1/4 inch sticking out of the die at the case head end. I was told that brass needs to be hammered in flush with the die. I took a once fired case and basically had to beat it to death to get it in there all the way. This made the neck so narrow that the lee loader rod would not go in without more violent hammering. Something must be wrong here. Are these things only meant to size the body with the neck sizing done seperatly? Does the case really need to go allthe way in, and if so why don't brand new cases go in easily neck and all?
    Last edited by Silver Fox; 03-11-2013 at 04:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    825
    In the early 60s I got a Lee Loader hammer style for my 222 which only neck sizes. After about 4 or 5 loadings I needed to full length size so I bought one of the ideal hammer in full length sizers as you describe which came with its own knock out rod. My first attempt at hammering a case in I discovered ain't no way. I told my uncle and he told me to bring it and my cases over to his place. We lubed the cases and used his arbor press seating them flush to the end of the die almost effortlessly. It did a good job but bumped the head space just a little too much for my rifle. After that I used a shim to keep the press from pushing the case in all the way and I was in business with full length sized cases. Its probably almost 50 years now since I used it last but at the time it did a good job for me. Thank goodness for the fine equipment we enjoy today.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,133
    I've only used this type of die for sizing straight sided or straight tapered cases, and they always went in flush. I'm guessing yours was never used and is cut wrong for the caliber listed.

    Froggie

    PS I should have mentioned that I use either a bench vise or arbor press... hammers are so low tech!

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    1,926
    Every once in a while you will get a bad one. I have a .30-30 Lyman Ideal hand die that sizes the shell too small in all diameters.

    However, those hand dies should have their own knockout rods. None of the ones I've seen have been a close fit to the inside of the shell like the Lee Loader rod is. Try squeezing the shell flush in in a vise, using a little Imperial Die Wax and knocking it out with a smaller rod. Seating a bullet will show you whether your die is so undersized as to be useless.

    Thin pistol cases can be driven in with plastic mallets, generally with one good whack once you get the technique right, but the longer and stouter rifle cases are best done in a vise or arbor press.

  5. #5
    I do have the knockout rod. I just used the lee rod to check how much the die had sized the neck. A bullet may seat fine. Definitely going to take the advice re: wax and vise next time I try it. Thanks for the replies.

  6. #6
    Glad to hear others had issues using a hammer. I was ready to go get the sledgehammer from the garage. Vise it is.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    9,835
    I have over a dozen of these and for the most part they are cut to very good specs. Like anything else made by man, you could get a bad one.

    On a rimless case, the bottom of the case head should be flush with the die. I do not use a hammer and think that is a poor way of doing things. I use a arbor press. That is all it takes on handgun rounds and smaller bottle neck rifle rounds up to 30-30. Bigger cases than that need more leverage.

    I seat the case as far as it will go in the arbor press and then take it to the bench vise and finish pushing the case flush. My bench vise has smooth jaws so no damage is done to the brass.

    The force needed can be greatly reduced by polishing the inside of the die. I use a bore mop, wrapped in strips of paper shop towels. I use Mother's Mag Polish on the paper as a polishing agent, but about any kind of metal polish, including tooth paste will work. You put the map, paper and polishing agent into an electric drill and run into the case. I use a lathe, but that is just because I have one.

    As a side note, any steel die can be polished this way and it will take out any micro-burrs that cause scratches on the case and make things easier with a press or hand die.

    These Lyman Shell Resizers are fun little gadgets, but offer no advance over a press mounted die. If you really must hammer the case in, Put a small block of hardwood on the case and hit the wood with your hammer. Make certain the case is lubed whatever you do.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  8. #8
    Boolit Designer 45 2.1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Little Egypt, Part of the political fifedom of Chicago
    Posts
    7,345
    Charles just gave some very good advice. The only thing missed was using a larger arbor press allows very easy sizing and ejection no matter which cartridge you use. A friend has a wall mounted one with a two inch square ram.......... wish I could find another.
    45 2.1

    Knowledge without understanding is a dangerous thing. For a little knowledge entices us to walk its path, a bit more provides the foundation on which we take our stand, and a sufficient amount can erect a wall of knowledge around us, trapping us in our own ignorance.

    Never sleep, never die

    Knowledge is easy to get, but worthless if you never use it. However the info is free, so the only person you have to blame is yourself if you chose not to use the information.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    9,835
    I have one of the cheap 1 ton Harbor Freight arbor presses. As soon as I win the lotto, I am going to buy at least a 3 ton American made ratchet type arbor press.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  10. #10
    This is great info. Thanks! I like the old stuff. Makes reloading fun.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Fort Collins
    Posts
    60
    I collect these and have over 60 of them. I did find one 308 die to be wrong. Another 308 die worked very well. So apparently there were some quality issues at times. I also have several of the full length sizing Wilson dies and really like them.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by vacek View Post
    I collect these and have over 60 of them. I did find one 308 die to be wrong. Another 308 die worked very well. So apparently there were some quality issues at times. I also have several of the full length sizing Wilson dies and really like them.
    Here's hoping mine isn't a bad one. I've been looking for wilsons but haven't found any yet.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master 1bluehorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    738
    Quote Originally Posted by vacek View Post
    I collect these and have over 60 of them. I did find one 308 die to be wrong. Another 308 die worked very well. So apparently there were some quality issues at times. I also have several of the full length sizing Wilson dies and really like them.


    I have ONE...thats more than enough......

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Fort Collins
    Posts
    60
    They were an interesting aspect of reloading. Elmer Keith mentions them in a book. Phil Sharpe wrote about the Wilsons. I have a lot of modern reloading equipment but still have fun collecting some of the vintage solutions to rolling your own. I do keep a Lyman die with my Lee Loader for 9 mm in a nice little bug out kit. It does a really nice job of resizing a 9mm case.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,133
    The one I have used the most is a 32/40 example. I'd love to find the major pistol calibers... 38/357 and 44 Spl/Mag as well as 45 ACP, and I'd really love a 32 S&W/H&R/FM (which was never actually made, but should have been! My "Bug Out Kit" would contain a 310 tool with whichever caliber dies was appropriate and the aforementioned FL sizer to use with about 3-500 rounds worth of components. More for fun than practicality.

    Froggie

  16. #16
    Well I tried seating a 140 gr bullet and there's definitely plenty of neck tension compared to the lee classic. It took a few very minor shaving off the copper jacket. Does this matter? I'll be asking for a press come Christmas.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    1,926
    Check the chamfering job you did on the case mouth. The jacketed bullet should squeeze in the case without shaving even if the neck is sized a little too far.

    I've seen press dies that have sized straight wall cases enough so a bullet seated in them looks like the neck of a goose trying to swallow a golf ball. Outside of the overworking of brass issue, the ammunition loaded with these dies didn't seem to be significantly worse than that loaded on dies with more normal dimensions. Of course it's not very desirable, but people put up with more adversity in the Good Old Days.

    I remember Elmer Keith mentioning in one of his books that some of the "precision" bragged about by the loading tool companies sometimes seemed to be on the level of that of tinsmiths snipping sheet metal out to make drain gutters.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Bent Ramrod View Post
    Check the chamfering job you did on the case mouth. The jacketed bullet should squeeze in the case without shaving even if the neck is sized a little too far.

    I've seen press dies that have sized straight wall cases enough so a bullet seated in them looks like the neck of a goose trying to swallow a golf ball. Outside of the overworking of brass issue, the ammunition loaded with these dies didn't seem to be significantly worse than that loaded on dies with more normal dimensions. Of course it's not very desirable, but people put up with more adversity in the Good Old Days.

    I remember Elmer Keith mentioning in one of his books that some of the "precision" bragged about by the loading tool companies sometimes seemed to be on the level of that of tinsmiths snipping sheet metal out to make drain gutters.
    Good call on the chamfer job. Thanks

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    9,835
    Silver Fox...These dies were intended to complement the 310 tong tool and dies which could only neck size and not full length resize. When cases needed resizing they used this Lyman Shell Resizer. Like any full length resizer the cases are not ready to be loaded without expanding the inside of the neck to receive the bullet. One of the dies in the 310 set was for doing this.

    So, if you are trying to load cases directly from this Lyman FL size die, you are skipping a very important step and yes it does matter. Anytime you shave material (lead or metal jacket) from the bullet you are damaging the accuracy of the bullet and round.

    If you have not done so already, it is time for you to buy a good handloading manual and become familiar with the process. There is nothing wrong with the die.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  20. #20
    I have the Lee Modern Reloading 2nd edition. I thought the lyman tool might be nice to use with my lee classic if i bought some once fired brass. Just so I could full length size. I think it will be a long time before I need to full length size my own brass if I keep the loads light.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check