Gas checks and hollowpoint cast bullets

[10 Spot Terminator]

I have been busy this last week reading info from various sources insofar as best hollowpoint performance in typically slower cartridges such as the .38 special. In the vast majority of the articles I have read for the bullets to mushroom nicely the alloy ends up needing to be slighty softer than what would be recommended to shoot with a similar non hollow point bullet. My question is this . If gas checks reduce gas cutting on bullets to be driven harder for near magnum or magnum velocities would not making a gas checked hollow point mold allow me to use a slightly softer alloy and accomplish the same thing ? Has anyone done this and can speak from expierience ? I have a K14 that I would love to hunt small game with such as Snow Shoe rabbit, Rock Chucks, and try to out fox a desert dog close enough to getter done.

10 Spot

[fcvan]

Magnum loads can be fired without gas checks up to 1400 fps, further by true boolit whisperers. For most folks, 1200 fps is a reasonable limit. As many will attest here you need a boolit sized to fit the bore, a proper lube, and a proper alloy.

You are shooting a .38 Special, likely a 6" barrel, yes? You would be surprised how little velocity is required to get decent expansion from a rather soft boolit. Many moons ago a good target load for .38 sp was a swaged hollow based wadcutter. The lead was very soft, the loads rather mild, and the lube was little more than a coating. Think of the lube coating on lead .22 lr ammo, I believe it was the same stuff. Folks loaded the wadcutter backwards so the deep hollow base was now a hollow point. The point being, a very soft alloy helped the expansion and the lube did the job well.

Compare the .38 sp to a 9mm. You can launch a 125 HP from a .38 at 1000 fps at much lower pressure than the 9mm. This is largely a function of the larger case volume of the .38 sp as compared to the 9mm. Launching a soft cast, properly lubed and sized 125 or even 158 gr HP at 1000 fps will allow you decent expansion with very good accuracy and likely no leading.

Your question regarding the use of soft lead and a gas check: although you can do very soft lead tumble lubed, or with a standard NRA 50/50 or equivalent, without leading, but a gas check can be used. I have a Lee C358-185 SWC HP mold which takes regular checks. I have shot it without at .38 sp velocity and is worked fine. My standard alloy is range scrap. Many years ago that range scrap was swaged hollow based wadcutters as that was the practice ammo my agency used at the time. When ran without a gas check above 1200 fps it left lead in the bore. For me, I run a check on that boolit above 1100-1200 fps.

In the past year, I have been shooting a lot of loads using plain based gas checks I make from soda can material. At normal 38 or 9mm velocities they aren't needed but the groups are smaller with the PB check. I loaded some Lee 356-102 1R (as cast mine weigh 105 and .358) rather warm through my 9mm pistols. I sized to .358 with a PB check and they were quite zippy and fun. I haven't tried them in the .38 as yet because I don't have a lot of spare primers. I have launched the Lee 358-105 SWC (mine weigh 108 at .3595 ish) from the .38 to ~1050 fps without PB checks with great results. I look forward to launching some checked ones in the future.

I would love to get the Lee .358-125 RF and have it converted to hollow point. It doesn't really need it as the flat point has worked well on small game. I don't own the mold (yet) but horse traded for some. I have the 358-158 RF which I have launched with PB checks, albeit in 1200 fps .357 loads. I also launched some .356-120 TC (mine weigh 125 at .3585) with PB checks also at 1200 fps but want to push them closer to 1400 just to see how they perform.

Yes, you can run softer lead with a check. Just know that when seating a check onto a soft boolit you can get deformation. I seat PB checks onto a 356-125 2R (mine weigh 126 at .359) and when I use a flat point punch I get a flat point boolit. I set the die to get a uniform 'squish' on my flat point. Those do quite well with 50-50 range scrap/pure lead and a plain based gas check, even when launched to magnum velocities. I got to test those before I ran low on primers. Good fun!

[paul h]

I can't say from experience as I haven't tried them yet, but that's exactly why I wanted a gas check mold when I ordered my MiHec 400gr .475" hp mold.

I did some cast some bullets from mystery alloy claimed to be range scrap that I added 2% tin. It's a relatively soft bullet, and my load will drive it 1200 fps.





Hopefully I'll get a chance to try it on paper next week.

For a 38 sp I'd try pure lead with 2% tin if you're using a gc.

[Larry Gibson]

I've busted many a rabbit and rock chuck with the 358156 cast of almost pure lead or 40-1 alloy, GC'd and HP'd with the Forster 1/8" HP tool and loaded to +P 38 SPL velocities over 5.5 gr Unique out of my 5" barreled M15. They run a tudge over 1000 fps and perform every bit as well as the vaunted Federal and Winchester 150/158 LSWCHP "FBI load".

So to answer your question; "If gas checks reduce gas cutting on bullets to be driven harder for near magnum or magnum velocities would not making a gas checked hollow point mold allow me to use a slightly softer alloy and accomplish the same thing ?"

Yes, the use of the GC allows the softer alloy to be driven much faster with accuracy and no leading. I use a soft NRA 50/50 lube for such BTW. Was using Javelina but now use BAC. Suggest you give a 150-160 gr HP'd GC'd soft cast bullet a try in your M14. A wider HP such as pictured would probably increase the terminal effects over the standard HP.

Larry Gibson

[10 Spot Terminator]

Thanks guys. In essence everyone seems to agree this would be a good thing and I thoroughly expect to have a good time working up these loads . I am leaning toward having the hollowpoints be somewhat less aggressive than those MiHecs that paul h has and yet just a tad more aggressive than the straight bore hollow points I get from my Forster tool . Trying to get the best of penetration and exspansion for my hunting purposes. Having the gas checks can allow me to kick it up if need be for the .357. I will be looking into the PB concept as well. And yes the K14 is a 6 incher and my Model 66 is a 4 incher. Thanks again fellas.

10 Spot