OK, I'm going for it.... I think.

[Any Cal.]

Alright, got my sizer die, and some paper that worked. Still using some poorly made boolits though, as I have no mold right now. Over 35g of #9 I had:

7 or so rds w/ the right paper, 3 wild fliers, 3 in a cloverleaf shaped hole, and one an inch or so away from the cloverleaf. Incidentally, shooting conditions were very poor, so the 1 shot could have been my mistake as well. The 3 outlyers were several inches away from the group and point of aim in random directions.

6 more with the right paper had 3 wild fliers and 3 in a 1.5 inch group.

Using some slightly thicker paper sized down to .377, I couldn't find my shots w/ 3 rds, but had no problem hitting a 28" gong at 100yds in the area I was shooting at. Can't really say what the issue is with these, no leading that I can see.

Getting 3 rds cutting the same hole seems promising, If I could figure out what the fliers were from. It would be nice to start again with some well cast cores, but that will have to wait for a mold. I got ahold of some good paper, but only enough for 100 or so rounds. I guess this project is on hold 'til I get a mold again. Will try bare boolits at that point as well, especially now that the bore is smoothed out a bit.

[geargnasher]

You're getting closer, I think the issue now is getting good castings to work with and working on your patching consistency and loading techniques.

Gear

[Any Cal.]

Well, when I was shooting, I kept checking the sights because the gun was shooting like something was loose, but they seemed fine. The other day I noticed a rattle in the rifle... it turns out I loosened the rear action screw doing the pound cast, so the action was half floating in the noodly stock. Don't know how much of the problem it caused, but I expect it to do a bit better tightened back up...

[Any Cal.]

Alright, used my mangled mold to make a few more boolits. I tried to use only the best ones, which looked pretty good, but still weren't perfect. Wrapped them with my better paper, loaded over 22g of #9 w/ dacron filler. Got 1485 fps and 4/5 shots in a square 2" group @ 50yds. One flier made it 4" group. Shooting 8-9 on one target gave 2 distinct groups, one centered and one high and right by a few inches, with a couple in between.

Tried the same load over lubed boolits air cooled, but got leading from the first. Will start waterdropping these and see what it gets me, as the air cooled are MUCH softer than the wq.

-Oh- sun was at my back and the glare on the front sight made it a bit tough, not sure how much that played a part.

***Question*** Will the accuracy at relatively low velocity be the best possible, so that you can only hope to keep it at higher velocity? Can I keep working for accuracy at low power, then start working my way up once I start getting things nice and tight, and just work at not messing things up?

***Question 2*** Would there be a point to just working at getting lubed boolits to shoot? Does the paper patch complicate or simplify things at 1800 fps? 2000 fps?

I have another paper to try, one of the catalogs that get sent constantly. If it works, no more searching, it gets delivered to my door!

[Nobade]

My own comments - others may vary.

Plain naked lubed gaschecked boolits are probably going to be easier to get to shoot accurately up to maybe 1700 fps. Past that they get difficult.

It still sounds like you are having fitment issues. Something is not right. Things shouldn't be so hard. This is the same thing I went through until I finally figured out how everything needed to fit together. If you got bore leading from one shot at 1485 fps, it is telling you something does not fit right.

AA#9 is a very fast powder that will make success with PP much more difficult and severely limit the speed you can produce.

Just a thought, if you put one of your PP boolits in the barrel and locate it where it would be when normally chambered, can you see light around it when you look in the chamber?

-Nobade

[Any Cal.]

Thanks Nobade. The bore leading was just a gradual darkening of the bore, but I can't say for sure that it wasn't from very soft lead or poor lube. I am not planning on going far w/ the #9, just trying to use up old powders that are lying around. Hoping to burn through the useless stuff rather than buying more just yet.

Please don't try to choke me through the computer, but I may have hit upon all or part of my issue. I realized that I wasn't patching that far up the ogive, so the rifling could be peeling the patch back. I tried some today but didn't get any real info, other than that 55g of 4064 gave me sparkly clean bore when wrapped farther up. I am wondering if I couldn't drop back .001" on the sizer and use some thicker paper and have things work well with the boolit wrapped differently???

[Any Cal.]

Well, I had some old wrapped cores that were slightly smaller. I cut the patch at the crimp groove so it would beunder bore size at the front and shot them over 4064. Still nothing good, group was 6-7" @ 50 yds. I guess it shows the jacket being over bore size was not the only issue. Next step will be to do the same with .370 cores and see if it helps anything.

I just found a burn rate chart showing #9 as being faster than 2400. I don't know how accurate that is, but I was thinking it was considerably slower. No wonder you kept saying it was fast nobade...

I weighed some of the 'alright' cores, and they were mostly +/- .1g, with a few outliers at +/- 1g. I don't know if that says anything about what to expect from the core itself accuracy wise?

Ordered some Tac1 to see if I can get grease-groove boolits to shoot any better. Between my current frankenlube and the air-cooled boolits, I guess I am not real surprised I didn't get much.

I figure that even if the paper patch keeps being difficult, it is polishing the bore up nicely. All the lands had cutter marks that are slowly going away, so I must be accomplishing something.

Going to shoot everything over 4064 now to give the patch the best chance of working, and keeping charge weights lower, for around 2K fps.
.

[Nobade]

If you can swing it, you might get a couple jugs of slow 50 BMG or 20MM cannon powder while they are still available and cheap. A case full of that will likely make that Ruger sing. Get that boolit into the bore and sealing before the fire hits it in the butt.

BTW, that AA#9 works awesome in "whisper" type applications if you have any small case/heavy boolit setups.

-Nobade

[jdcs1411]

Where would someone source the powder mentioned above? Rifle powder is tough to find here in WI.

[Any Cal.]

I am searching for some surplus powders, but so far it looks like I would have to bite the bullet and buy them. It is more change than I have to spare right now. I am thinking that I will go to RE 22 when I get to the point of pushing the patched boolits hard, or possibly the 50 powder in the lb cans if I can find some.

Jdcs, there are several places. Google surplus powder for sale. Gibrass, wideners, etc.

[Nobade]

Where would someone source the powder mentioned above? Rifle powder is tough to find here in WI.

First post huh? Welcome to the fun!

Just like any cal. says, try gibrass, Pat's reloading, High Tech ammo, and Wideners. They are the usual suspects, I am sure there are others too. Not much left out there in the surplus market but there is still $5/lb powder available while it lasts. Plus we have a room here on cast boolits dedicated to just that.

-Nobade

[geargnasher]

RX22 or Winchester 780 Supreme have worked very well for me in high-velocity PP loads, there are other, very "slow" canister-grade powders that work well too, but I don't have a lot of experience with them myself. Canister powders get expensive when burning a case full every shot, so if you can get some of the surplus stuff cheap and learn how to make it work this becomes a lot more fun. The trick getting the really slow stuff to light is to use a compacting filler if you can't stuff the case full safely to take up all space. This gets the slow-for-cartridge powder burning efficiently and consistently. Sometimes the cannon powders do better when duplexed with a few grains of faster, "kicker" powder which essentially just adds brisance to the primer. Standard primers are your friend with all of these loads.

Gear

[jdcs1411]

Thanks guys. I'm going to check those sites out.

Yes, first post. I have been reading for a while.

[Any Cal.]

Well, I finally got another mold, a 375449... 265g gas check design. It has a significantly longer nose than the Lee 250, and is a bore riding nose. I also cooked up some better alloy, lots of tin and some sb. Finally, I tried another paper; a brown masking paper for painters.

The lubed boolits were atrocious over 22g of #9 and 55g of 4064. Paper patched over 22g of #9 two shots were 3/4" or so at 25yds, and the first shot rang a 12" gong at 100. I only had 5 loaded to test, but will make some more. The paper was slightly thick, but didn't leave paper rings, I guess because it was a bit tougher. Beautiful stuff to work with, it didn't tear easily when wet.

Running out of powder, and selection right now is slim. Hoping I can get a pistol powder and rifle powder load, both accurate but one 400fps faster for a little more distance. Have to see how the new set-up pans out.

[Any Cal.]

Made some more and shot them. More 375449 patched w/ masking paper.

Over 22g 2400 I got a 7/8" 4 shot group @ 50yds. The fifth was a flier that I am pretty sure was caused by a badly damaged patch. I am guessing 1500ish fps on these.

Over 22g of #9 I got a 2 1/4" and a 2 3/4" group. The good news is that I have almost polished off the #9, and I spilled half of what I had left.

None of the boolits were weight segregated or visually culled beyond obvious wrinkles from a cold mold. Next step will be to use some weighed boolits and try again. They come from a single cavity mold, but I seem to get two distinct weights, my guess is from mold temp extremes. Will up the charge of 2400 a bit and try some 4064 and see if the accuracy goes south or not. I am really wanting 2200fps with the least expensive powder I can manage.

[Any Cal.]

Tried lubed boolits over 37g 5744. 2 shots 3" apart @ 50 yds, so quit shooting paper with them.

Paper patched, weight segregated, 55g 4064, 3 shot group @ 100yds of 7".

Loaded some of the 22g 2400 loads from yesterday w/ weight segregated bullets, got 2 1/2" groups @ 50 yds. Hmmmm,not like the 7/8" group from yesterday...

I THINK that the alloy is playing a part. I believe I watered down the alloy a bit for this batch, and it may be what is hurting me. I will stiffen up the alloy or waterdrop and see what happens.

[Any Cal.]

Ok, I have a thought that may or may not be good. I may be able to get a chamber insert to convert the rifle to 38-55 or some other smaller cased caliber. .375 wsm may be an option as well. Would the ability to use a smaller case and build a longer throat accomplish anything?

Mixed up some Lyman #2 and cast some boolits. Some grease grooved, some paper patched, will see if alloy is what is causing my problems. Water dropped them for big hardness. Will see what happens.

_--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tried some weight matched cast w/ some high tin alloy from last week. Grease groove over 22g 2400, 6 shots in 2 1/2" @ 50 yds. Good enough for plinking, I guess, but only barely.

The water-dropped #2 group was 4"+, the high hardness was not helpful. Same charge as first load.

Paper patched gave a 4" 10shot group, discarding 2 wild fliers made it 2 1/4". Makes it tough, as most shots were stringing one way or the other, like a large "r" shape. Is it the load, rifle, sights, or operator that is the issue? Without the stringing it could have been an excellent load.

The last pp group was 3" for 5 shots, still kind of stinks.

About to call it quits on the paper patching for this rifle, running out of ideas.

__________________________________________________ _______

I have been thinking... Nobade, your comments on fit kept running through my head, so I reviewed the chamber measurements and measured the #2 boolits. Because of the boolit shape, I can't get anywhere close to the lands, at least .1" off of the skinny front drive band. I am going to try patching to the 1st lube groove, so the core will stick farther into the throat. I think that will let the front driving band kiss the lands. Will also play with partially sizing the core, so as to leave the front drive band at .375ish instead of .370 like the rest, so it can start grabbing the rifling .020" sooner. Here is a pic I drew to illustrate current non-working setup.

[Doughty]

Any Cal,
If I read your posts correctly, you have a pretty severe constriction in your barrel. If this is the case, I don't think you will ever get much accuracy, especially at higher velocities. I would suggest that you confirm whether or not you have a barrel constriction. If you do, I would suggest fixing that, and then proceeding with your quest. It's possible that you could clean up your neck/throat area some at the same time.
Good luck, Richard

[Any Cal.]

Are you referring to the .002" difference in bore diameter? I think that it is fairly consistent for the front half of the barrel, and opens up a bit towards the rear, if it matters?

[Any Cal.]

I tried 2 new avenues of attack today.

First was wrapping my core farther up so as to better fill the throat. Using a #2 alloy air cooled I got a 3" 10 shot group @ 50yds. The interesting thing is that 5 were in a tight vertical string, with a 6th being close. I am starting to suspect a loose nut behind the rifle is contributing to the problem.

I also beagled the nose of the mold and got 8"+ groups @ 50yds. That wasn't the issue...

So far the paper patched are shooting considerably better every time, but I am having a hard time getting <2" groups @ 50yds. Wondering if the load is 2" or less and my wobble is making up the other 1"+. Seriously considering a williams WGRS to tighten things up a bit. I know I cause a flier or two, the patches cause one or two, the cores cause one or two, but there is some potential in there. Just being able to shoot the rifle is nice, so I will keep plucking away at it.

Here are a couple patches I picked up. They were a few feet in front of the bench. I thought the lattice shape was interesting.