Mini mill

[Tokarev]

Realizing that a dream of setting up real shop is extending into distant future due to this goddamn economy, I started looking into a mini mill instead.
Here's what I came across after looking at KBC tools 'King' brand and Busy Bee 'Craftex' brand: http://www.atlas-machinery.com/produ...gital-Read-Out

This mini mill stands out due mainly to wide longitudinal travel of almost 19" as opposed to the Craftex mills that only travel about 11" with about the same size working area.

1 HP motor sounds like a benefit over 3/4 HP motors of Craftex products too, but won't be a deciding factor.

At this moment my main focus will be in experimenting with making muzzle breaks for M14 and CZ 858 rifles and there will be a lot of milling using turntable and V blocks and I am wondering if anyone was able to put a real-life DRO on such a mini mill?

In this day and age it would be natural if there was a PC or tablet-based DRO. Anyone heard of them?

[sprinkintime]

Realizing that a dream of setting up real shop is extending into distant future due to this goddamn economy, I started looking into a mini mill instead.
Here's what I came across after looking at KBC tools 'King' brand and Busy Bee 'Craftex' brand: http://www.atlas-machinery.com/produ...gital-Read-Out

This mini mill stands out due mainly to wide longitudinal travel of almost 19" as opposed to the Craftex mills that only travel about 11" with about the same size working area.

1 HP motor sounds like a benefit over 3/4 HP motors of Craftex products too, but won't be a deciding factor.

At this moment my main focus will be in experimenting with making muzzle breaks for M14 and CZ 858 rifles and there will be a lot of milling using turntable and V blocks and I am wondering if anyone was able to put a real-life DRO on such a mini mill?

In this day and age it would be natural if there was a PC or tablet-based DRO. Anyone heard of them?

Try this outfit, they might be able to help you out. Mini Machine Shop .Com

[Tokarev]

PC based DRO software and their interfaces are still under development and have a long way to go, although this sounds very interesting: https://sites.google.com/site/win7droprototype/
If Win 7 DRO prototype materializes into something concrete, it will beat the living hell out of conventional DROs

This seems to be the way to go about DRO at this point: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SINPO-3-axis-...item4abc820a01

[Red River Rick]

Rather than waste your money on a toy...............save it and buy a real machine when time and funds permit.

RRR

[johnnybar]

At 265 lbs, that thing will chatter at the drop of a feather. If your working brass and alum only, might be OK. But $1400 + shipping will go a long ways toward a used bridgeport or similar. Make good friends with someone that knows used mills and buy him lunch and a case of his favorite beverage to hit a few auctions or look at used mills. PS: You do know that a lathe with milling vise and compound rotary table on the crossfeed can handle many milling needs.

[Lee]

Sad but true. Sometimes, nothing beats a bridgeport. Lost my chance at one 1/2 century ago because I couldn't figure out how to get it from there to here. Also had a DRO, and lots of tooling thrown in. You wouldn't believe the price. I can't believe I passed on it. Ah...youth ......

[Tokarev]

That thought burned a hole in the back of the head. I saved and waited for many years and still an opportunity to set up real shop is beyond horizon. Thing is that I have enough cash to burn on this toy machine and all accessories but nowhere near enough to buy property where I could put the full size machines. At the same time the projects are piling up and I simply have to buy a machine I could carry into the basement myself.

[HollowPoint]

If I would have waited till I could afford something better the chances are that I never would have bought anything at all.

Stuff happens; and that "Stuff" is usually enough to start siphoning off that money you've been setting aside for a purchase like this.

I started out with a mini mill and a mini-lathe. I still have the mini mill. I use it as my drill press. I sold off the mini lathe for a new slightly larger bench lathe.

In my area, on craigslist there always seems to be good used mills and lathes for sale. There never seems to be any when I'm actually looking to buy one but, it seems to start raining Good-Used-Mills and Lathes after I've already spent my money.

I used the money I made from selling my mini-lathe to buy tooling for my new lathe.

I say, buy the mini mill or a good used full-sized mill now. You can always keep saving up for that upgrade.

HollowPoint

[oldred]

PS: You do know that a lathe with milling vise and compound rotary table on the crossfeed can handle many milling needs.

A good milling attachment for a lathe can do some things one of those lightweight mills can not do and they can be a lot more useful than some folks think. Setup can sometimes be a PITA but a good attachment will be a lot less prone to flex than those light mill frames and larger end mills and fly cutters can be used than can be used on the little mills. While I do intend to buy a decent mill, probably this summer, due to the limits from the size of the minis I would not trade my milling attachment on my lathe for any mini-mill I have tried.


I built this Highwall type rifle from scratch using flat 4140HT bar stock with just my Harbor Freight lathe and a milling attachment plus a couple of other home made tools/attachments.

[bstarling]

[QUOTE=oldred;2094469]A good milling attachment for a lathe can do some things one of those lightweight mills can not do and they can be a lot more useful than some folks think. Setup can sometimes be a PITA but a good attachment will be a lot less prone to flex than those light mill frames and larger end mills and fly cutters can be used than can be used on the little mills. While I do intend to buy a decent mill, probably this summer, due to the limits from the size of the minis I would not trade my milling attachment on my lathe for any mini-mill I have tried.


I built this Highwall type rifle from scratch using flat 4140HT bar stock with just my Harbor Freight lathe and a milling attachment plus a couple of other home made tools/attachments.

Oldred, that is one fine rifle there. You have done some outstanding work.

I would love to see your lathe milling attachment. I have an HF 12x36 that really wants to have one of those. I have thought about building one, but a picture of yours would go a long way toward making that happen.

Bill

[Tokarev]

Are you saying that mini mills can't mill steel?

[MBTcustom]

Here's my two cents worth.
First, if you have a dream of doing something, read my signature line. You can do whatever you want to do if you want it bad enough. If you actually value quality machinery, then that's what you will have even if you have to buy it one piece at a freaking time and assemble it in the basement! There are some who dream and there are some that do.
My thought is that you can skimp on a lathe, and kinda sorta limp by until you get something better, but a rigid mill is absolutely essential, and it is important that it be rigid and accurate, otherwise you might as well save your money and buy a drill press instead.
I second the Craigslist idea, that's where I found my milling machine. I got it for $2K. The bearings in the head were shot, but the ways, and the DRO looked perfect, so down slap me the money, and hauled it on home.
Now, If you were to find a bridgeport mill with a busted head, but decent looking bottom metal, I have a used J head that I would sent you for the cost of shipping (Probably at least $100 I would think) You see, I was planning on building a mill from the ground up if I had too, and I got this head for free, and held onto it instead of letting it slip past me, but it doesn't fit my mill LOL! You win some and you lose some!
I dont care if we are talking about a bench gun, a mill, or a lathe, or a grinder. Accuracy is heavy. Whatever you end up doing, buy the biggest you can afford.

Oldred, sir, I most respectfully tip my hat to you! Excellent work you did on that falling block! Beautiful, and very professional, and the wood is a sight to behold also. What caliber is it?

[Junior1942]

+1 to Tim's tip of the hat to Oldred.

[oldred]

Fellas please don't misunderstand I don't want to try to make the impression that I think a mill is not necessary or that a lathe attachment is somehow better just that the attachment can do a lot and sometimes even more than a mini mill. I have to agree that it is usually a good idea to wait on something bigger because although a lot can be done with a mini it does get frustrating with how flimsy they can be, even if they are seemingly not chattering that vibration that can often be felt while cutting can be death to a carbide end mill and it's due to a lack of mass in the machine plus accuracy can be "iffy" sometimes. I have a very small shop "back on the ridge" out in the boonies here in Tn and I simply didn't have room for more machinery until I got a couple of tractor projects out of the way so the lathe attachment was just a temporary fix for the problem- a real milling machine is orders of magnitude better. The bottom line is that if at all possible buy a real mill but if for whatever reason that's not an option right now the milling attachment can allow your projects to move forward without having to wait until a real mill is available.


Yes you can mill steel with a mini mill, you just have to do so with VERY light cuts.

The rifle is chambered in 45/90

bstarling, I don't have the attachment mounted right now and I have it boxed away along with most of the machinery while I build my new garage but it was fairly simple to do. I took this milling table from Enco, (BTW, that thing was only 89$ until a few months ago and may come on sale for that price again)

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

and removed the center section (the top table will simply slide onto the base and replace the center section which will not be needed). I then mounted the table to a heavy angle plate that is bolted onto the cross slide, this allows for travel in all axis. Other important mods were to add real thrust bearings to the lead screw on that cross slide and I replaced the brass lead screw nut with a Delrin plastic type nut to eliminate backlash problems from the sloppy fit of the original. Also I have a rotary table that I mount to the angle plate that makes it possible to do a lot of operations that I otherwise would not have been able to do.

[Tokarev]

Lathe attachment won't help as I have a mini lathe too. Of course precision is not there, but I still can finish the parts to any precision using various techniques of the olden days.

I have access to lots of the mills and lathes in good shape starting from $500 and the cost of moving them would be $800 tops, but I do not have more than 4 square feet of space where to put them and it has to be in my basement that can be accessed only down 3 flights of stairs so anything larger than 250 lb is not an option. Are round-post mini mills any better? They can be disassembled into the less than 250 lb pieces.

[bstarling]

Tokarev, As Oldred said, a mini mill will make accurate cuts. There are gazillions of them being used for some really good work. What he was saying about the light cuts is an absolute when working with steel. If you take your time and not try to make something that overburdens the little guy if will work nicely. I have always wanted a lathe attachment and Oldred's sounds to be a reasonable way to go. For what it's worth, there are attachments, often home brewed that allow milling on a mini-lathe. I've seen some fine work done on them as well. Google is your friend, look here: http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm Varmint Al has done everything that be done with the mini-lathe.

Good Luck and also thanks Oldred for the info,
Bill

[oldred]

Are round-post mini mills any better? They can be disassembled into the less than 250 lb pieces.

By round post "mini" mill do you mean something like this?

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-2-h...ine-33686.html

If so they would be a much better option IMO than a true mini-mill because they are a lot more solid. Round column mills do have their unique problems due to their design but this really is more of an annoyance than a handicap and as you point out they can be dissembled (to a point anyway) and "shoe-horned" into tight areas. These things have a lot more power and can handle much bigger tasks than can the really small machines so they are not nearly as limiting as to what a person can reasonably accomplish with one.

FWIW, don't write off Harbor Freight as junk because their shop machinery is not in the same class as the worthless tool shaped objects they sell in their stores, these machines are the exact same ones sold by ENCO and a host of other dealers but just with a different name tag. My 14x40 HF lathe is the EXACT same machine that a friend of mine has that he bought from Enco at nearly twice the price and mine has been run almost daily now for well over 4 years with zero problems!

Well zero problems if I don't count the incident where an idiot (me) backed into it with a truck and broke the engagement control lever off!

[Tokarev]

Exactly! This is the one available to me: PDM30 http://kbctoolsandmachinery.ca/product/show/6-125-030

The only downside versus a true mini-mill would be inability to install vertical axis for a DRO. This is not a major thing though.

Don't get me wrong, I am big fan of using right tool for the job. My wife, who is a seamstress, has Kansai Special coverstich machine with pneumatic thread trimmer, Union Special chainstitch machine, Juki single needle. Those machines are 10-50 year old and they last forever. We acquired them from different sources over the years and they are the best investment she ever made.

On top of that she uses a household White serger and disposable (bio-degradable) Singer machines from Walmart that we are replacing about every 4 years once the plastic chassis and parts become distorted.

Going down to KBC tools tonight to have a look at both mini mill and round column mill. Will have to make a decision soon. What tooling do you recommend getting besides the usual collets, chuck, boring head, vise, V blocks and a turntable that I am going to need anyway?

[oldred]

That is the same machine as the HF version but it comes with a lot of accessories included that the HF mill does not include, things that would be necessary and would be a substantial extra cost for the HF mill. IMHO that round column mill would be a much better choice than any "mini" mill and would be far less likely to be a source of frustration to what should otherwise be a very enjoyable hobby. Having used both types of mills I would much prefer the round column mill (to the mini-mill) and while a lot of people will complain loudly about the problems with that round column I have found it to be just a minor annoyance that is not really much bother at all once a person accepts it for what it is.

[Tokarev]

Weight is the issue. I may not be able to move a 700 lb mill into the basement.