Long Term Survival of a TEOTWAWKI Event

[Blacksmith]

As I grow older and study the issues more I have become convinced the long term survival of a TEOTWAKI event will be found in a community approach. It will become necessary to draw together and function as communities composed of similarly minded individuals with a variety of skills to be able to provide a division of labor in order to have a reasonable lifestyle.

This has lead to a consideration of listing skills which would be essential to start, necessary over an extended period, and nice to have for the long haul. The selections will depend to some extent on where the community is located, its size, the resources, and surrounding communities, however their should be some commonalities. Another consideration will be the amount of disruption and the duration of disruption to the current infrastructure and distribution systems.

So how about a discussion of skills and ranking of importance. To start I would consider Blacksmithing not essential but necessary over an extended period. The ability to make and repair tools would be highly desirable. Some of the allied trades such as Fairer, Cutler, Gunsmith, etc. would probably be handled by the same person in smaller communities and until the demand justified specialization. Skills and the ability to concentrate on the work at hand brings along the requirement of other skills to support the efforts of the skilled trades. These support trades require their own skills and may or may not require full time work. Returning to the Blacksmith as an example he requires fuel for his forge which historically has been either coal or charcoal. In the past there were many "charcoal burners" who turned wood into charcoal. Some did it full time but others such as farmers did it in their off season, during the winter they would make charcoal to trade or sell. If coal deposits were available the support skills for it would involve mining and transport. Transportation needs wagon makers or boat builders, who need saw mills, and harness makers who need tanners, etc., etc.

What skills do you see in a community?

[ole 5 hole group]

A TEOTWAKI Event - now that is something for the political correct individual, as they will either perish quickly or change their tune. To start with, you will need the means to protect yourself and your group or maybe to take by force if need be. A total breakdown will be just that - total chaos and survival of the strong and intelligent beings will start to take place and that will take awhile to sort out. Not sure just what role the military boys would play, but they would possess the heavy firepower and could rule the day for the short run.

I would imagine people in the USA would be moving south, southeast, southwest and west for better climate if all power was lost and there wasn't efficient "green power" available and that journey would be uncivilized to say the least.

I just don't see much of anything good coming from a TEOTWAKI event, as that will put mankind back into the 17th century overnight, and the vast majority of our species just don't possess the gathering and food preserving skills necessary for survival in that environment and there's a whole lot of people out there with very little to no skills for anything except violence that will just be living day by day taking from others, so I just don't know how one would go about planning for such a day unless you are currently living in a remote northern village currently practicing those skills.

Just remember, the larger your community - the more you have to come up with just to satisfy your basic needs.

[wch]

We'd all better learn about farming and animal husbandry.

[starmac]

If one does not already garden and can or otherwise store their food, how could anyone expect to start in an emergency? What if this event happens in the fall, when it is several months before you could even get a seed in the ground, then 60 to 90 days before you can harvest most edible crops???

Even if a guy raises a garden now, but doesn't store the harvest, depending on the timelines a guy could get mighty hungry before he harvested a meal from a garden.

[Denny303]

Surely it would be overwhelming to learn all the trades that were essential to life before the industrial revolution, but there are basic skills that cross between each trade. metal working, coopering, black powder gunsmithing, blacksmithing, most all take skills used with hand tools, I guess what im getting at if you learn to use the file, the gouge, the plane, the hammer and chisel, and gain some knowledge and practice techniques one could stand a better chance of long term survival. theres so much info on the net and in books, heck half the stuff I mentioned can be found in youtube videos. its all out there just waiting to enrich our minds.

[starmac]

Yup Denny that info is out there and easily obtainable today, but that could change in a heartbeat in a disastrous event. Those that garden, and raise their own food now would be way better off than someone that has some seeds saved for the dreaded day that they would have to have them. At least in my way of thinking.

[larryp]

Denny that is why people need to start practicing those skills now while things are still normal and where failure won't mean death. Fortunatetly I was raised by my grandparents on a small subsistence farm where we raised all our own food. I had to start helping with the butchering when I was only 9 years old. We canned our food and because we were so poor a lot of food also came from hunting and fishing. Being raised by two people who grew up during the depression helped me learn a lot about self sufficience. Right now as I've gotten older I've returned to a more self sufficient lifestyle where I raise all our own vegetables, chickens and eggs. I have planted some fruit trees and I'm looking for some feeder pigs to put in the pen I just built. My cabin is set up to run 1800's style without electricity if need be with wood as my primary heat source and kerosene lanterns on the walls. We have year around springs 200 yards from the house for water too if need be.

[ole 5 hole group]

I don't know how many of you have ever been on a "survival" trip, where you were dropped off in a remote location for 7 days with just what you could carry in both arms. Of course, you "planned" for that outing but it never goes as well as you planned. Now, just stretch that trip out to 20 plus years or more. Not many city slickers would be walking around but I could see some communities in the warmer climates becoming tribal, like we currently see in the poorest 3rd world countries.

A person's mindset would have to change considerably just to fight off the depression that would attempt to set-in for the seemingly hopelessness of life after scrounging day to day to eat and trying to stay warm & dry at night. Most young & middle aged people today can’t cope with childhood behavior without calling some behavior from a 9 year old “bullying, threating or hateful”, when just 20 years ago or longer a teacher would crack his **** or another kid would knock him on his butt and that behavior would change – called a little attitude adjustment.

Those of us who have the basic skills of surviving about anything, even though we might not have used most of those skills for the past 30/40 years, we still can adjust to about anything and we’ll seek out others who have the same skills and mindset and just do what has to be done. I can see it getting real ugly real fast – probably within a year, it’ll be dog eat dog. A TEOTWAKI Event is just plain bad *** and I just don’t think USA people would be able to handle it as well as some other “primitive” areas.

Blacksmith – why did you pick a TEOTWAKI Event over say a nuclear war or some such disaster?? As I know the definition of a TEOTWAKI Event to be a complete and total destruction of life as we know it, to mean no power, all grids throughout the world are destroyed, all refineries are destroyed, all major cities and countries infrastructure totally decimated, climate change to the degree that the seas are wreaking havoc with the coastlines and sea travel is next to impossible etc. or is your definition of TEOTWAKI less dramatic where law & order is still maintained and we’ll be back in business (more or less) in less than a year?

[Denny303]

that sounds like an awesome place larry, my dream home! haha If I ever make it to Montana ill have to look ya up. I enjoy the primitive ways, love history and researched a lot about the French and indian war period and therefore have practiced a lot and learned a lot about 18th and 19th c. living. And as I browse forums like Bushcraftusa I see a lot real woodsmen are going back to the ways of old in many respects, making their own knives, clothes, shelters, and other accouterments. Ole 5, I agree with you a lot of folks in the usa are so weak I cant even bear to think about it, just flip though the channels and to see the **** that our countrymen watch and that's enough for me. I think the bulk of our folks brains have turned to mush already.

[starmac]

Even the natives that live here in extremely remote villages, depend on the outside world for most things these days. In any picture of the villages these days you will see factory boats and motors have replaced the skin boats, modern ropes and weapons are mostly used. snow machines and fourwheelers are the transportation of choice.
There are still some diehards, but they are not the norm.

[Blacksmith]

Blacksmith – why did you pick a TEOTWAKI Event over say a nuclear war or some such disaster?? As I know the definition of a TEOTWAKI Event to be a complete and total destruction of life as we know it, to mean no power, all grids throughout the world are destroyed, all refineries are destroyed, all major cities and countries infrastructure totally decimated, climate change to the degree that the seas are wreaking havoc with the coastlines and sea travel is next to impossible etc. or is your definition of TEOTWAKI less dramatic where law & order is still maintained and we’ll be back in business (more or less) in less than a year?

Ole 5 Hole
To me a TEOTWAKI is the result of any event or combination of events that results in the long term collapse of our current lifestyle. I believe many things could trigger the collapse natural, man made, economic, etc. I believe we are very vulnerable because of the reliance we put on the distribution system for our daily needs and because America is still the economic engine driving much of the world. If something disrupts the current balance things will quickly fall apart and we will reach a tipping point which will take a long time to recover from.

For example if the Government gravy train stops for any reason there will be riots in major cities. This will lead to panic buying and shortages that will cause additional riots. When the riots get bad enough that people start staying home to protect their families and what they have the infrastructure starts to break down. When truck drivers stay home it further disrupts distribution. When police stay home public safety is compromised and people will take responsibility in a rough harsh way. Refinery workers and Dock workers staying home will cripple shipping. Utility workers off the job will mean growing blackouts, water, sewer and gas disruptions. The system is so interdependent that it will fall like dominoes and the world will either follow or be so busy patching up their own country they won't have time for anyone else.

Once the distribution systems fail they will be hard to restart all over the country. There will be some areas that will keep some parts working but when parts and supplies are used up these will also have problems. With no gasoline we quickly revert to travel at the speed of animals and it is a long way across this country at walking or trotting speed. If you are hunting and gathering to feed your family and spending time on guard duty you don't have much time to devote to hairdressing and telephone sanitizing or other essential activities.

As always YMMV.

[starmac]

I am not sure what the real definition of a teotwhatever event is, or even if there is a definition. I thought this term was just made up in the last few years, but my understanding is more like blacksmiths on it. I am not sure what the definition is or even how you pronounce it even, but I do think we are headed for one and it will be a rough ride.

[Boerrancher]

If one does not already garden and can or otherwise store their food, how could anyone expect to start in an emergency? What if this event happens in the fall, when it is several months before you could even get a seed in the ground, then 60 to 90 days before you can harvest most edible crops???

Even if a guy raises a garden now, but doesn't store the harvest, depending on the timelines a guy could get mighty hungry before he harvested a meal from a garden.

The answer to the problems pointed out can be found by looking at how our early ancestors survived. Before there was agriculture men were hunter gathers. If you think these people were nomads who moved around a bunch like depicted in the movies you are wrong. They had no domesticated animals, except for maybe the dog. How are you going to move about daily or even weekly with even the most basic of equipment. A stone tipped spear, stone knife, and axe is easy enough to pack, but think about the hides used for shelter and blankets. If you have never packed an elk or moose hide very far you soon realize that it is not easy, even if you use a few dogs to help it is a huge PITA, if not nearly impossible. Now think about a Mammoth or Mastodon hide.

These people survived by hunting but gathering was much more profitable even in the winter months. There are all kinds of edibles that provide plenty of calories that can be found in the winter beneath the snow even. It just requires a bit of research on your part for the area that you live in. I have a close friend who lives in NJ that feeds his family strictly by gathering. They eat all natural whole foods and nothing else year round. Some things he is able to process and store for future days but generally he can spend a couple days a week out gathering and feed he and his wife and kids for a week, even in the winter.

I am no where as good as he is but me and mine would survive even if we had no stores and things fell apart in the fall or early winter. Since we do garden, hunt, and gather, we are able to live pretty well, and things would not change much if things collapsed. Yes we would not have all of the electricity to use that we do now, and we would all have to work just a bit harder but we would do fine. The key to survival is to practice, practice, practice, and live as close to the way you would have to live when things suddenly go south.

Best wishes,

Joe

[reloader28]

Computers will be a thing of the past without electricity. As a result, most people will die VERY shortly because they wont have their computer to tell them what to do and where to go. Everyone NEEDS books.

We've been collecting books. Gardening books, urban homesteading, alternative cures, backyard farming, self sufficiency. Everything from making tools to saving seeds, making butter and soap to butchering. It darn sure dont hurt to have on the shelf.

Most people cant survive without electricity. We are set to do just fine. Kerosene lamps and plenty of wicks and fuel. Wood stoves and a good supply of wood. Solar panels and generaters if we need to run the freezer until we get the frozen stuff smoked, though it only needs plugged in once a day. We even have a hand pump for the well water. We have chickens and goats for food, a big garden and lots of rabbits, birds, deer and elk. Only a 1/4 mile away is the river for fishing.

We practice this stuff all the time. I work const and build furniture and have the hand tools to do it too.

[M-Tecs]

Hunting/gathering is not a viable survival strategy for most with today’s population density. Except for a few of the most remote areas anything even remotely edible would be consumed within weeks. On the other hand if ¾ of the world population suddenly died off the existing stores of canned and dried good would last long enough to raise crops and livestock.

If the TEOTWAKI Event was like the TV series that the electricity just stops 95% of the world will starve to death within 6 months.

[TacAlert]

We'd all better learn about farming and animal husbandry.

This statement is so true! I read somewhere that the average age of an American farmer is 58. Will look for the link to post. I grew up in the city in the city of los angeles - argueably, one of the worst, fully dependant on government cities in the US so admittedly, I am part of the problem. Worse still, I live in a condo where the HOA even regulates the number and type of plants you can have on your balcony. As such, not knowing anything about farming or raising animals is a big concern of mine.

[TacAlert]

http://www.epa.gov/agriculture/ag101/demographics.html...correction "55"

[Outpost75]

Remember that Soylent Green Is People!

[waksupi]

A good thing to learn is how to pack horses and mules. That may be the only way you have to get around.

[starmac]

A good thing to learn is how to pack horses and mules. That may be the only way you have to get around.

I got a kick out of this post. There was supposed to have been some very clever horse thieves in the old days, I could just imagine the new breed of horse thieves. lol