New Guy with 8 MM Mauser questions.

[backstraps]

I’m new to bullets casting although I have cast thousands of 45/50/54 round balls.
Question on 8 mm Mauser. I have a 215 gr lee mold and a 175gr same maker. Haven’t slugged the barrel”s” yet. (2 guns)

1. Should the bullet touch the lands or be set back .010?

2. I have 2400 for powder and plan to start at 16 grs. Should I even consider filler or forget it.

3. “If” the bullets as cast fit after slugging, how do I attach the GC?

4. What else do I need to do?

5. Barrel care, should I run a few jacketed bullets through both guns and polish up the barrels the clean and then fire the cast ones? The guns are in great shape.

Thanks for your help. Looking forward to casting and shooting these Mausers.

[WILCO]

Welcome to the forums Backstraps!

Get yourself the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook for starters, as it'll answer alot of questions you might have.

Gas checks can be easily applied by using a larger sizing die.
I wouldn't use filler with 2400 powder.
I would seat the cast boolits to standard O.A.L.
Clean the barrels as best you can. Remove all the copper fouling as you are able.
Cast boolits shoot differently than full metal jackets and not all of the rules apply equally.

[UBER7MM]

Welcome Backstraps,
.
.
Rule number one: Each gun is a law unto itself. What works in one might not in another.
.
.
You'll need to slug those barrels to determine what size(s) you'll need. Boolit sizing is done with a sizer/luber tool and is generally a separate process of the casting of boolits. Different size diameter sizers can be purchased to get the right diameter boolit down your barrel. The general accepted cast boolit size is .001-.002" over the slugged barrel diameter. Gas checks can be applied with sizer / luber tools.
.
.
Cast boolits can touch the rifling lands. Find out what your gun(s) likes. Generally, cast boolits are fired at lower velocities and pressures than jacketed bullets. This may effect your sighting of a rifle. For example, cast lead in a military guns might use the 200M site elevation for a 50 or 100 yard shot. This will vary from gun to gun and load specifications as well.
.
Having said that, there are member that can get their boolits to amazing velocities. That is part of the passion and alchemy of casting/reloading.
.
.
2400 is a relatively fast pistol powder and has a large following. A double charge of 2400 in an 8x57 can blow up a gun and the operator. You'll want to look into the postings regarding fillers. You may want to investigate a medium burning rifle powders such as 4895 or 4064 with lead.
.
.
There is lots of threads on alloys and other technics so that one can continually learning by reading what other member have to write. You'll have fun developing the perfect pet load for each of your rifles.
.
.
The Lyman Handbook is good advice.
.
.
Enjoy,

[9.3X62AL]

I've had GREAT results with the Lee 175 grain boolit and 16.0-20.0 grains of 2400. I use a loading block for the primed cases, and shine a flashlight down EVERY case mouth to assure that powder levels are of equal height. That done, I seat bullets.

I size to .325" in a Lyman H&I die within Lyman 450 or 4500 presses built for this purpose. .325" will fit more than 90% of the 8mm rifles I've slugged, and I use THROAT diameter--not groove diameter--to predicate my sizing dimension.

Gas check attachment is easily done as part of the sizing process in these machines.

Overall, the 8 x 57 Mauser has been a real bright spot in my cast boolit rifle reloading experience.

[Larry Gibson]

I have found .325 to be an excellent sizing for 95% of the many 8x57s I've used over the years. Always the odd ones out there though. If the barrel bore's are in "great shape" I'd bet that will do fine. Pays to slug the bore sometimes though.

OAL with unaltered M98s can be tricky if you want the loaded cartridges to feed from a fully loaded magazine of 5 rounds. Many cast designs will not feed reliably (bullet gets hung up on the rear face of the barrel) with the top 2-3 cartridges if the magazine is filled. Since I like to use a full magazine I adjust the oal for reliable feeding and even then some cast bullet designs are not conducive to reliable feeding with more than 3 rounds in the magazine. Additionally, I doubt you or a M98 with issue sights can tell the difference in accuracy, if any between seating the bullet to lands or not.

Most important to accuracy is to keep at least the top edge of the GC up into the case neck.

You'll get a lot of disagreements on shooting cast after jacketed unless you scrub the heck out of the barrel. Like Mike V I've not found a real difference in accuracy when switching back and forth w/o cleaning, particualarly with issue sights. With my scoped rifles capable of excellent accuracy I do clean the barrel though.

Larry Gibson

[atr]

shine a flashlight down EVERY case mouth to assure that powder levels are of equal height.

9.3x62AL is right on with this suggestion.....

atr

[backstraps]

Thanks for all the info, I have been lurking for along time following this site. I am assembling tools and books as I write.

I have other powders, 4064 works well with cast bullets, wow I would never have thought that. I have the Lyman cast bullet book on the way. Any other books out there I should have?

Thanks again!

[9.3X62AL]

The RCBS Cast Bullet Manual (#1, 1986) is worth having if it can be located. I think it is still in print, but is overdue for an update. It is not as in-depth as the Lyman manuals are, but still contains useful loading data, esp. for handguns. It has one of the best data sections on the 32 Magnum I've seen in print.

[Seabee1960]

I have three 8X57 mm rifles... two 98 GEW WW1 German roller coaster sight jobs and a very sweet little Guild rifle built on an 88 GEW with a .3185 barrel. When I look back at the Lyman 45th edition loading manual they list 24.0 grains of 2400 as the best load for 170 grain cast bullets. I use this load with the fine SAECO 081 bullet that cast at around 185 with pure Linotype metal and get great results from all three rifles though I do size the bullets to .321 for the 88 GEW. I dont know when 16 grains of 2400 became " the load" unless you are shooting 240 grain monsters....

All my manuals list 3.250 as the over all max length and all the Mausers I have had plenty of throat to accomdate those freakishly long 180 grain round nose military bullets of the 1880's. I like to load mine so that the case mouth barely covers the top grease grove. Depending on the bullet you will be around 3.100 long or way short of the over all max. since lead bullets are much heavier with respect to lenght then the cursed jacketed kind you probably could not touch the rifling and have much boolit left in the case neck.

I want to throw a blast from the past out to all my cast boolit brothers: an old Special Edition loading magazine ( 1992) lists some great loads for AA 2230 for the .30 cal family with about 180 grain cast and gas checked bullets. My SAECO 081 is in this family and I have had very good results with a Bull Barreled KRAG Cast Boolit shooter ( 16X Unertl) using 29 grains of this powder and a Hoch 180 grain Nose pour mold. This will be the first decent weekend in Northern Utah in months and I am going to try this 29 grain AA 2230 load with the 081 SAECO gas checked .323 sized bullets after church Sunday. I will report back and tell you how it went.

[Seabee1960]

I forgot... Ken Waters said that 21 grains of IMR 4198 and a 165/180 grain gas checked boolit at an over all length of 2.900 was " The Load". Also. Dont shoot the cursed Jacketed shootie things ( I would not enoble them with the term boolit) after you rifle has been properyl cleaned with "J.B Bore Bright" and lapped by the gentel caress of about 50 well lubed and properly sized boolits. You wont be happy with the accuracy.

[UBER7MM]

I also have had success with SR-4759 with cast loads for 50 yd plinking. It's a bulky powder with higher pressures for the velocities, but it seem to work well in the 8x57. Start with published minimum loads.

Safe reloading & shooting,

[WILCO]

Any other books out there I should have?

Both editions of Modern Reloading by Richard Lee.

[Seabee1960]

Backstaps,
I had a very productive day at the range here in Northern Utah. I tested all the loads I mentioned earlier and have a couple of suggestions for you;
If you want to plink and not have the bullet do any real work in the physics sense of the word then I would suggest that the Ken Waters load of 21 grains of IMR 4198 on top of a 160 to 180 grain gas checked bullet is the load for you.
I shot a bunch of SAECO 081 ( 185 grain) this afternoon and got very good result. Groups averaged about 2” at 100 yards with a 120 year old rifle and a 52 year old fat guy shooting open express sights in the rain. The down side is the velocity was just south of 1500 FPS which makes them great fun to shoot but not efficient enough in energy to hunt with past 100 yards.
I tried the 28 grain load of AA2230 and got just what I was looking for. The group remained tight, less than 3 inches but the velocity was back up to 2000 FPS which gives this bullet the energy to kill a feral hog sized animal efficiently. The thing I love about AA2230 is the way it meters through the Redding powder measure with no change in weight charge after charge. It used to be cheap too but I overheard some of the other guys at the range saying how hard it was to find components now days. I am still shooting stuff I horded when Bill Clinton was President so I have yet to fell the shock of all the shortages. Like a lot of guys I had our current President figured out 5 years ago and managed to stock up years worth of powder and primers. As all of us cast boolit guys know cartridge case life is just about indefinite when shooting at moderate velocities so that just leaves lead to scrounge.
The 24 grains of 2400 load should be considered a maximum load and I shot most of them with the 98 Gew. It is stronger but has pretty course sights so its groups are always 50% larger than they are with the 88 Gew sporter.
I hope this helps.

[Seabee1960]

Just a note on the picture; The Krag was part of a Krag rescue phase I went through some years back when you could get a hillbilly dear rifle i.e. a cut down Kraig infantry rifle for around $100. I bought lots of them and put them back to 30" military configuration or built bull barrel cast boolit shooters with them. I have used this rifle to check every .30caliber cast bullet / powder combination you can think of. The 30-40 Krag case is a dream for us guys.... plenty of neck to let you experiment with bullet seating length, a case with plenty of capacity and a great big old rim to head space on. It is the perfect cast boolit cartridge. I should add one more item, I found a box of 45-70 loaded cartridges in my "Clinton" era stuff with no attached load data, Just a warning about not shooting them in a Trap Door Springfield. I have a modern Winchester 1885 lever gun in 45-70 so I took it to the range today. The lead slug must have weighed at least 450 grains and boy did I get my butt kincked.Painful and now my arm is swolen after about 10 rounds. probably why the groups opended up when shooting the 98 Gew. I have a flinch now that a whole quart of bust head wouldn't fix.