Speer on primer availability

[GabbyM]

Yes Fred that's what I did. Stocked up plenty of sp ,lp,lp mag, sr, sr mag, lr.
Then I bought some IMR 7828 and wanted some LR magnum primers. Think that's old Murphy's law.
They're on back order I think.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I and a group of just over 40 men had the oppertunity this morning of hearing Steve Moore, Manager of Product Development at the Lewiston, Idaho Speer/CCI - ATK plant.

This info is right from the horses mouth ----------

6 years ago, the Lewiston Speer/CCI operation had about 600 employees. Today it is 1200.

Could they use more, yes, but they must balance current employee needs with what is sustainable during "normal" times.

Steve said they could use more bodies in his area, but also feel a responsibility to not over hire and then be forced to fire the excess.

They are operating 24/7

Before the school shootings back East, the supply channels were reasonably filled, but the panic after those shooting together with the obamanation quickly sucked the supply lines dry.

His best guess, at this time is, that we should begin to see an easing of supplies like .22rf ammo and primers in possibly a year.

The scare that has gone out on the net about the huge amount of ammo being bought by home land security is much to do about nothing.

These orders as large as they are, are normal. Home land security in all it's many facets, simply uses a huge amount of ammo for practice and duty ammo.

Just think of N.Y. city for example with a police force of 30,000. Just think of the amount of ammo they must go through in a year.

About 1/3 of the ATK production is normally bought by the US government.

I would guess, that this may also include the states and cities which use the Speer, CCI and federal ammo.

Speer Gold Dot is used by MANY law enforcement agencies.

There are 2 powder manufactures in the USA, one of which is Allient / ATK

There are 4 US primer manufactures, Winchester, Remington, Federal and CCI both of which are part of ATK.

The possibility of supplies easing in, "about a year" was much better then I had expected.

Lets hope the situation does not change for the worse, and remember this was just a guess as using Steve's words, "the crystal ball is really cloudy.".

AS per bullets being each marked and traceable, Steve said it's not going to happen any time soon as there is currently no way to do so. He said that we hear about it happening and some company having developed a way to do it, but when the facts are made known, there is simply no way to do this at present in an affordable way.

He said if this were to be forced upon us, we'd simply need to quit shooting and cost seemed to be the factor to force that on us.

Anyway, great breakfast and Steve was very informative.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[ddaniel1]

Thanks Crusty.

[btroj]

So the panic is just that, panic. Imagine that.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Apparently in regards to the panic about the "huge" homeland security buys.

However, do I now trust the government?

Yep, about as far as I could pick up Idaho and throw it!

CDOC

[10mmShooter]

Thanks Crusty..... Also RCBS is part of ATK....any mention when the reloading hardware will back to "normal" ?

[dragon813gt]

When all the new people have everything they need. I'm patiently waiting for the flood of new to like new reloading gear to hit the market in about two years. Should be plenty of deals at that point. Of course this is assuming nothing major happens in the mean time.

[Olevern]

Not just us little guys in a pinch. One of the ammo remanufacture I have purchased from went from having inventory to now a 6 to 9 month back log, another one went from two weels backlog to 6 months back log in the past month. Both of these are not small in someone's garage operations and one I have know the owner for thirty years.

Bottom line is that we may have to cut way back on our shooting but remember some out there are now really having a difficult time to keep the doors open and thier workers employed. Some should point out to the DC gang that they perhaps are adding to the unemployment problem.

Like he cares; as soon as he was reelected he shut down his jobs council. No more need for campaign therefore no need to continue the sham.

[Olevern]

I and a group of just over 40 men had the oppertunity this morning of hearing Steve Moore, Manager of Product Development at the Lewiston, Idaho Speer/CCI - ATK plant.

This info is right from the horses mouth ----------

6 years ago, the Lewiston Speer/CCI operation had about 600 employees. Today it is 1200.

Could they use more, yes, but they must balance current employee needs with what is sustainable during "normal" times.

Steve said they could use more bodies in his area, but also feel a responsibility to not over hire and then be forced to fire the excess.

They are operating 24/7

Before the school shootings back East, the supply channels were reasonably filled, but the panic after those shooting together with the obamanation quickly sucked the supply lines dry.

His best guess, at this time is, that we should begin to see an easing of supplies like .22rf ammo and primers in possibly a year.

The scare that has gone out on the net about the huge amount of ammo being bought by home land security is much to do about nothing.

These orders as large as they are, are normal. Home land security in all it's many facets, simply uses a huge amount of ammo for practice and duty ammo.

Just think of N.Y. city for example with a police force of 30,000. Just think of the amount of ammo they must go through in a year.

About 1/3 of the ATK production is normally bought by the US government.

I would guess, that this may also include the states and cities which use the Speer, CCI and federal ammo.

Speer Gold Dot is used by MANY law enforcement agencies.

There are 2 powder manufactures in the USA, one of which is Allient / ATK

There are 4 US primer manufactures, Winchester, Remington, Federal and CCI both of which are part of ATK.

The possibility of supplies easing in, "about a year" was much better then I had expected.

Lets hope the situation does not change for the worse, and remember this was just a guess as using Steve's words, "the crystal ball is really cloudy.".

AS per bullets being each marked and traceable, Steve said it's not going to happen any time soon as there is currently no way to do so. He said that we hear about it happening and some company having developed a way to do it, but when the facts are made known, there is simply no way to do this at present in an affordable way.

He said if this were to be forced upon us, we'd simply need to quit shooting and cost seemed to be the factor to force that on us.

Anyway, great breakfast and Steve was very informative.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

I think some resourceful importer will call upon the out-of-country manufacturers to ramp up and meet some of the shortfall ie: Tula, (Wolf), Fiocchi, Magtech of Brazil etc.

At least we can hope.

[Case Stuffer]

AS per bullets being each marked and traceable, Steve said it's not going to happen any time soon as there is currently no way to do so.

I think that I read years ago that powder had markers in it and that the residue could be tracked back to a lot number.

Many new firearms come with a single factory fired case and I would not be surprised to learn that more than one is fired and fired case and recovered bullet from each scaned and logged into a data base. Faciale and voice reconition software can identify a person so why not a firearm?

[dragon813gt]

The fired case thing has been a joke all along. I think there were two states that required it. One of them being NY. There might have been one case where a cataloged fired case solved a crime. The program cost a ridiculous amount of money to run and was scheduled to be shut down.

I don't know about the powder we buy. But there are markers in explosives that can be traced back to the manufacturer. It wouldn't surprise me if the markers were in commercial gun powder. But since it's not recorded when you buy the powder it would do no good from a crime standpoint. I shouldn't even be mentioning this since it will give politicians more ideas on things to regulate.

[snglstack]

Yep, I'm still plugging away at the primers acquired in '94....still have thousands left, and I'm gonna use em all!!

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

10mmShooter,

Sorry, the only parts of ATK spoken of to any length were the Federal and the CCI/Speer.

Now, a couple post back the was a comment about fired cases and their identification to a specific firearm.

What Steve spoke of was not case and firearm identification related, but rather the idea by some crazy nuts to number or mark and then record every single bullet during manufacture so as to identify the make, caliber, and on and on through the the supply chain to the final buyer/user.

Stupid people!

I really think it would be possible to do so, but the cost and paper work involved would kill the firearms, ammunition and shooting as we know it, simply pushing the cost beyond most people's ability to buy.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Sasquatch-1]

It would have been nice if they would have incorporated this response in their email response. It would have sounded a lot less like the old side step.

I and a group of just over 40 men had the oppertunity this morning of hearing Steve Moore, Manager of Product Development at the Lewiston, Idaho Speer/CCI - ATK plant.

This info is right from the horses mouth ----------

6 years ago, the Lewiston Speer/CCI operation had about 600 employees. Today it is 1200.

Could they use more, yes, but they must balance current employee needs with what is sustainable during "normal" times.

Steve said they could use more bodies in his area, but also feel a responsibility to not over hire and then be forced to fire the excess.

They are operating 24/7

Before the school shootings back East, the supply channels were reasonably filled, but the panic after those shooting together with the obamanation quickly sucked the supply lines dry.

His best guess, at this time is, that we should begin to see an easing of supplies like .22rf ammo and primers in possibly a year.

The scare that has gone out on the net about the huge amount of ammo being bought by home land security is much to do about nothing.

These orders as large as they are, are normal. Home land security in all it's many facets, simply uses a huge amount of ammo for practice and duty ammo.

Just think of N.Y. city for example with a police force of 30,000. Just think of the amount of ammo they must go through in a year.

About 1/3 of the ATK production is normally bought by the US government.

I would guess, that this may also include the states and cities which use the Speer, CCI and federal ammo.

Speer Gold Dot is used by MANY law enforcement agencies.

There are 2 powder manufactures in the USA, one of which is Allient / ATK

There are 4 US primer manufactures, Winchester, Remington, Federal and CCI both of which are part of ATK.

The possibility of supplies easing in, "about a year" was much better then I had expected.

Lets hope the situation does not change for the worse, and remember this was just a guess as using Steve's words, "the crystal ball is really cloudy.".

AS per bullets being each marked and traceable, Steve said it's not going to happen any time soon as there is currently no way to do so. He said that we hear about it happening and some company having developed a way to do it, but when the facts are made known, there is simply no way to do this at present in an affordable way.

He said if this were to be forced upon us, we'd simply need to quit shooting and cost seemed to be the factor to force that on us.

Anyway, great breakfast and Steve was very informative.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Bonz]

and this is the answer when I emailed CCI asking them where all the primers were...

Charles, we make and ship 2,000,000 + primer a day, there is just a great demand right now.


Make Every Shot Count!
Justin M.
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
CCI/Speer
(866) 286-7436

[WHITETAIL]

Yes, we need to be a little more on the ball.
It is like running out of gas in your car.
Gas goes up, so you don't buy any.
Insted of keeping your tank full.

[Oreo]

I think that I read years ago that powder had markers in it and that the residue could be tracked back to a lot number.

Many new firearms come with a single factory fired case and I would not be surprised to learn that more than one is fired and fired case and recovered bullet from each scaned and logged into a data base. Faciale and voice reconition software can identify a person so why not a firearm?

That other state is my own home, Maryland. FYI, don't worry about them databasing powder, primer, bullet, or brass. Its been found to be useless by law enforcement. By law the state is still collecting brass samples from each new gun sold but I don't think they're doing more then just warehousing the sealed envelopes at this point. A less anti-gun state would have ended the program by now but you know how irrational gun grabbers can be.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

As I read the posts on the topic, many of which are quite good and reasonable in content, I can really feel sorry for a couple of groups. #1, those who are just now attempting to begin reloading, and #2 those who shoot huge amounts of ammunition in an on going program of training or competition and must therefore rely on an ongoing and continuing supply.

For the rest of us, even if shooting some hundreds or even a thousand or so per year, we should have been prepared.

Like Whitetail indicates, we should have kept the tank full.

AS per the answers rec'd by some posters from Speer/CCI, what more can they say. In one answer, they said they were producing and shipping 2,000,000 + primers per day and the other says they are running 24/7. Simply what is it we don't understand about Full Speed?

Knowing a bit about the man I heard speak yesterday, having been in contact with Steve over a period of some months, and knowing a bit about his back gound, he is VERY creditable. He was very clear that for things like new developments on the drawing board at ATK, the information is held close to the chest and he simply can't talk about it. But for the rest of the information he provided, and the many questions he answered from the men's group, he was very forth coming with information.

AS Steve indicated, the crystal ball is really cloudy right now, meaning they have only a slightly better idea what the next weeks, months or years will bring to the industry as a whole and shooters in general, then we as shooters and reloaders have from our side of the fence.

If not rocket science, the development and production of our powders, primers and bullets, at least boarders on it.

For example, during the development, and this would be ongoing, of 40S&W ammo, they were seeing some failures to feed and function in some police departments firearms. They went to some of those departments for an on site and hands on look at the situation, even to the point that they brought some of the handguns from the Seattle P.D. back to Lewiston in an attempt to solve the situation.

They, CCI/Speer, are after all major suppliers of practice and duty ammo for law inforcement and simply can't live with such problems and retain their market share.

The solution ------------- Well the head of the 40S&W case was squared off (90 degrees) at the base and this factor was causing the failures to function. Those cases were then slightly modified in the case manufacturing process, to have a very slight 45 degree angle in place of the 90 degree angle and NO MORE feeding issues.

Sounds simple, but it took many miles and much time to find and make this simple adjustment and solve the problem

WE really have no idea the length and depth of development that goes into the process of making the products we enjoy.

Clearly, at least in the case of CCI/Speer, they are not the enemy in this situation.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[merlin101]

The fired case thing has been a joke all along. I think there were two states that required it. One of them being NY. There might have been one case where a cataloged fired case solved a crime. The program cost a ridiculous amount of money to run and was scheduled to be shut down.

NY finally shut that down after aprox 10years and $38 MILLION, It was used in ONE court case and didn't prove a thing! Even after that some in the state senate still fought to keep that useless program.

[Denny303]

A local small shop here in central pa had a small stock of Federal LR and Remington SR, id say he only had about 5,000 of each and was selling them at $5.00 a hundred. I was shocked that he had any but I guess there's a small flow of supply beginning to come along.