cap making dies

[wicket]

I've been leaving the grit out of the powder lately, have you tried that with the shellac mix?

[ofitg]

No.... I decided to stick with the original formula, but I'm not sure how much difference the grit really makes. Theoretically, it should make the caps more reliable, but that's only a theory.

I would note that this compound from Davis's book, was eventually dropped by the Army because people were concerned about the possibility of bore erosion. The KClO3 compound which replaced it contained no grit.

[wicket]

The grit in the mixture sure sounds creepy when pressed mechanically, but i never had any go off accidentally under gradual heavy pressure. I read somewhere that the antimony compound serves as both a fuel and grit, but don't know where i read it.

[ofitg]

Now that you mention it, I think that makes sense. Antimony Sulfide is a crystalline substance, so Antimony Sulfide "powder" should be tiny crystals.... very similar to ground glass or fine sand.

According to Hatcher's Notebook, the Span-Am-War primer mix was replaced by a new recipe prior to WW1 -

21.97% sulfur
47.20% KClO3
30.83% Antimony Sulfide

Hatcher also recounts the shelf-life problems mentioned by Davis, caused by "souring" of the sulfur/KClO3 in humid environments.

[wicket]

I've made antimony, tin, and iron sulfide, all tend to be somewhat glassy solids, and mixtures made with them all detonate as reliably as the same mixtures containing grit. It may be that when finely powdered the chemicals require grit, i only sieve my chemicals to # 80 mesh. I don't recall seeing anything in my reading on the subject that mentions how finely chlorate mixtures like H-48 and FH-42 were powdered.

[Mike 56]

I have a Splitfire nipple on my CVA Bobcat side lock Rifle thats made for #10 caps. Super Bang ring caps worked every time. They were a tight fit but you could them on. I have run out of ring caps and #10 CCI caps to fit the nipple.

[wicket]

Some people have good luck with ring caps Mike, and it seems perfectly logical that they'd work, but i've never been able to get the ones i have to work on my Pietta revolvers with the factory nipples. I tried dribbling a bit of fine powder into the nipples, and still nothing. Toy caps just generally don't seem as strong as they were when i was a kid. Rather than shopping around for the "right" toy caps or loading cap hulls with punched disks from roll caps and fine powder, i started making my own copper cap hulls and filling them with a standard priming powder, it's the solution that works best for me.

[Mike 56]

The ring caps did not work on my revolvers either. I have a Tap O Cap i am still hit and miss using toy caps and fff or crushed KIK black powder. I am making another batch of black powder soon i want to try it under the toy caps. I would like to make a good priming compound but it seams it can be dangerous to make if you don't know what you are doing.

[wicket]

It's dangerous even if you know what you're doing Mike, even more dangerous if you only think you know what you're doing, which has been my case on a couple of occasions.

[Ajax]

the problem is wicket, is you don't learn how to do something till ya do it. There in lies the rub. I want to try to make some priming compound for my tap o cap but that will wait till i get home to Texas where i am much more isolated.

Andy

[wicket]

Like they say, experience is a good teacher Andy. But since priming compositions are a bit unforgiving as teachers (imagine a teacher who chops off your fingers instead of rapping your knuckles when you screw-up), it's good to go into it with as much information as you can learn ahead of time. As it happens though, there's a thread here on Cast Boolits that's full of such information, it's well worth reading before opening up the chemistry set.

[marcika]

Wicket. Could You please make a short video of your cap making rod die working? Thank You!

[Lee]

I'm just jumping in here, have not and do not intend to read all the posts.

If you are talking antimony trisulfide and potassium chlorate, don't make up more then 2-3 grams in a batch, and do not enclose it, or grind it or smack it.
You're talking to 4 fingered F***ED Mike about that. You need to watch your azzz with these primer formulas. I've got missing parts (x4) to prove it..............
Just sayin.... be careful guys......... it ain't pretty........

[wicket]

Sorry Marcika, i lack the technology to make a video. The die set is very simple; it's mounted on a cheap arbor press from Harbor Freight which makes it look more complicated than it is. There are three main functions: First a plunger punches a cross-shaped blank from strip copper. Second a cup-forming plunger is pressed down through the center of the plunger that cuts the cross, and presses the cross into a cup shape. Third, both plungers are extracted simultaneously from the die to allow the strip of copper to be advanced to make the next cap. There is a bail attached to the plunger of the press itself, it pivots down to transfer pressure from the press to the punch that forms the cross, then swings up to allow the arbor press plunger itself to push down the rod that shapes the cap. With both plungers buried in the die, the bail is swung down again to catch both, and extract them from the body of the die so that the copper strip may be advanced.

[Ajax]

I wasn't saying not to go into it educated. I am just saying you have to do it to learn. I know too many people in my field, electronics, who are book smart application dumb. If you take proper precautions and minimize all the possible negative out comes. In the military it's call risk assessment. I have been reading for a month straight on safety precautions and proper application of them. I will be using as much blast safety as possible i am thinking of manufacturing a Lexan box to work in with hemostats. We shall see.

Andy

[ofitg]

Ajax, a suggestion - measure out 1 grain of potassium chlorate, 1/2 grain of sulfur, and 1/2 grain of antimony sulfide. Mix them together. That's enough dry mix to load four percussion caps.

Shake it. Put it in a plastic container and drop it on the floor. Abuse it. Get a feel for what you can do, and what you cannot do.

[dondiego]

I was under the impression that you were only supposed to handle the primer mix in the wet form. That should be safe until it dries.

[ofitg]

I mix mine dry, but then I stir in alcohol & shellac to wet it for loading. Some people load it dry.

The point I was trying to convey to Ajax was, he can experiment with extremely small batches to learn how "touchy" it is (or isn't).

[AlaskanGuy]

Excellent point oftig.... I am gunna try that as well when i get the stuff together.....

[Ajax]

Awesome Oftig thats what i was wanting. Thank you very much.


Andy