cap making dies

[Texantothecore]

any luck on adding a few granuals of BP to a toy cap for a little extra? Can't find caps anywhere. have hundreds of toy caps but they will not set off my Pietta 1858.
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Figured maybe adding a few granuals of BP to the cap might give them a little more of a kick. Not saying to fill the cap as they could because an issue but just a tiny bit for a little extra kick to the cap.

Try "Legends of the Wild West" brand caps. They are the German caps and they work quite well. They are not very loud but if you add a bit of bp underneath the cap for spark propagation you will have very consistent ignition. Walmart sells them.

I have been doing some testing with this technique between rainstorms and I am getting better results than with commercial caps.

[wicket]

Taking a break from experimenting with percussion formulas to fabricate the actual caps, which frankly seems to be the more difficult task. So far i have a die made for punching out clover-leaf shaped blanks (maltese crosses were too laborious), next comes a second less complicated die to press the blanks into cups, i'm going for something like a #10 Remington. I rolled out some 5 mil copper to experiment with, but will certainly buy some if the dies work.

[aspangler]

I built one of the Tap-O-Caps and it works pretty well with a little BP under a cap. The dies are not too hard to make. If you need help just shoot me a pm. BTW Widners hve CCI caps for sale. I bought a 1000 just the other day.

[wicket]

I tried priming the nipple with fine powder and also topping the cap mixture with a disk of nitrocellulose paper, no luck with either. The ring caps i tried were of Italian manufacture and contained mostly grit, so that may have been the problem in getting them to work even with the charge quantity doubled.
My first notion was to copy the Tap-A-Cap, but it appears to produce pleated caps which i thought might contribute to chain firing, so i decided to try the cross-shaped blanks employed by manufacturers in the old days, figuring that they had already done testing and found that pattern acceptable.
Bass Pro in my area generally has caps, though mostly Remington # 11's, making caps just struck me as an interesting challenge that fit in with casting bullets, punching wads, and milling powder as
part of shooting percussion revolvers. It does bother me a bit that the simple act of buying ammunition has turned into a shopping and hoarding experience; a windfall for the merchants and manufacturers, not so good for shooters though, funny how that worked out.

[ofitg]

Wicket, a simple homemade cap-forming die was described in this thread -

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ap-maker/page2

It's not as fast/convenient as the Tap-O-Cap, but if you're looking for a means to be self-sufficient, it could be a solution.

[wicket]

That's very ingenious Oftig, hadn't seen that thread, thanks for steering me to it. I made a die that punches out crosses; fairly simple to make. I drilled four holes spaced around a center hole through a piece of 1/2" steel, then connected them by filing. The plunger was tricky since it had to be a tight fit though it was basically just a cylinder of steel the same diameter as the cross, with four triangles notched around its circumference to bite out the metal between the arms of the cross. The finished die block was split on its horizontal axis, shimmed, and screwed together so strips of stock could be fed through it, next time i'll just use two pieces of thinner steel, which would be easier. The cup forming die was very simple; a hole through another piece of 1/2 "steel based on the inside diameter of the cap plus twice the thickness of the stock being formed, the die was counter-bored slightly to the diameter of the cross to center the blank before forming. The plunger is just a piece of steel rod with the end slightly rounded. Took a bit of polishing to keep the cup die from ripping petals off the caps, but now it punches caps that fit my Pietta's perfectly and are formed like Remington caps with a scalloped lip and four petals. I press the blanks and caps out using a cheapie arbor press from Harbor Freight. Haven't tried feeding aluminum from a can through it, will go try that now, might save me buying 5 mil annealed copper online.

[ofitg]

Wicket, for what it's worth, the soft sheet aluminum from disposable pie pans has worked better for me than "beverage can" aluminum (somewhat stiff).

Your "clover leaf" punch sounds like it would come in handy with Raa-7's homemade die.

[wicket]

Ofitg, like you i wasn't impressed with how the aluminum from a soda can functioned, the copper petals tend to weld shut when the cap is pressed, the aluminum being springy didn't seal as well, not sure how it would stand up to the primer charge either, might be too brittle. I can see how pie pan aluminum would be better, it's thinner and would overlap better, and the pressure of forming probably tends to weld it together. I checked a Remington cap today with my vernier caliper, they appear to be closer to 7 or 8 mil, which i think would probably form better than 5 mil, will roll out some copper to seven mil tonight and give it a try.

[nhrifle]

Not sure if this has been thought of before, but I did have an idea today. How about a nipple that was bored out to accept the .22 blanks used to fire nail guns? Think this would work and be safe?

[wicket]

There's probably some way to do it, might be tough to extract the shells though. If you planned everything carefully you might be able to get the shell to eject from blowback, and also cock the hammer; turning a percussion revolver into a semi-automatic, sorta like the Webley-Fosberry. Could maybe even bump fire it.

[nhrifle]

That's something I hadn't thought of. Not sure I would want that spent shell ejecting near my eye!

[Texantothecore]

22 blanks as percussion caps:

A number of people have tried that and the results have not been useful because there is too much explosion and not enough give in the blank case. In a pistol it will move the
hammer back to full or half cock and the case may fly off the nipple and hit you in the head, right above the eye with some force. This has been happening very consistently. Go with the small amount of bp plus a single cap and it will work just fine.

[n.h.schmidt]

I like this thinking of how to make this work.I have been a endorser of the BP toped by a single cap method. Overall good results. I still want even better. I have begun trying two dot in the cap. One dot on the bottom ,BP then one dot on top. Promising results on the tester. A little more power is evident and still has the spark spray. I will shoot some soon. To all you who have used a real priming mix in a percussion cap. How do you get the mix into the cup? I mean you can't simply fill it up and you don't really want any on the sides either. This problem has stopped me from going this route.
n.h.schmidt

[ofitg]

N.H.Schmidt, I use denatured alcohol to wet the dry primer ingredients - the wet mix has a consistency similar to toothpaste.

I built a simple tool for loading - I took a 8D framing nail, filed off the point, and lathed a "skinny section" in the center of the nail. Then I took a short length of 5/32" brass tube (from the hardware store) and crimped one end down around the "skinny section" in the nail. After the nail and brass tube were joined together, I carefully filed off the other end of the brass tube so that when the nail head is pulled away from the brass tube, it opens up a small chamber which is 0.10 inch deep. When the nail head is pushed toward the brass tube (like a tiny syringe), the material in that chamber will be expelled.



I use a small knife blade to pack the moist "primer sludge" into the chamber of the loading tool, then I expel the sludge into an empty percussion cap hull. Next I use the butt end of a 9/64" drill bit to hand-press the sludge down into the base of the hull. Be gentle, it only takes one or two pounds of force. Allow the cap to dry out overnight and it's ready to use.

[n.h.schmidt]

Thank you that looks fairly easy to do. There are so many formulas to try. I would like to e-mail you or pm to get your opinion on a simple one to try out. I am very respectfull of primer power. Been on the bad end of that a few times. What have you been using for the cups? Tap-o Cap or something else?I have been using a copy of the Auto-cap(Tap-o cap for a reloading press). I have found that a double layer of pop cans makes for a stout cup and isn't much harder to punch out than a single layer.
n.h.schmidt

[ofitg]

Yes, I have a Tap-O-Cap, but I still like to "fiddle around" with other improvised methods to form the hulls.

Perotter is probably the guy you should ask about a particular primer composition.... he has done some extensive experimenting with different formulas.

The primer mix I use came from this book (page 456) -

http://www.sciencemadness.org/librar...explosives.pdf

Potassium Chlorate, Antimony Sulfide, Sulfur, ground glass (I use fine sand) and shellac. Noting what Davis says about using an antacid, I also incorporate a couple percent of Sodium Bicarbonate.
One of my reasons for choosing this formula was the availability of ingredients.

Naturally, it goes without saying, it's wise to work with small quantities. VERY small quantities.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I like this thinking of how to make this work.I have been a endorser of the BP toped by a single cap method. Overall good results. I still want even better. I have begun trying two dot in the cap. One dot on the bottom ,BP then one dot on top. Promising results on the tester. A little more power is evident and still has the spark spray. I will shoot some soon. To all you who have used a real priming mix in a percussion cap. How do you get the mix into the cup? I mean you can't simply fill it up and you don't really want any on the sides either. This problem has stopped me from going this route.
n.h.schmidt

As I mentioned early on in this exploration, the powder to use is SWISS Null B, a very fine priming powder now used for flintlock rifles. This powder is easily ignited by spark from the hammer & frizzen, and is proven to be the fastest kind of priming powder for flintlock ignition and with a greater confined pressure.......thus it is very likely to ignite very quickly and with a higher pressure in a home made cap when using a paper cap as the primary ignition in the home made aluminum or brass cap cups. In the alternative a small mortar and pestle may be used to grind REAL BP to dust fineness, which is almost as quick and easy to ignite as the Null B, and with the same attributes. Someone has already mentioned a miniature dipper for the home made cap charge process. Thus a one cap ignition as primary would lead to greater power from the secondary ignition.

The search, work , and development shown here is nearing success.

BvT

[n.h.schmidt]

Thank you ofitg and Baron. I don't have any of the things needed to make a priming mix,yet. BP I do have and can grind it to dust. I would try null-b if I had some .Buying a pound for a experiment is more than I want to do.At least right now.
Thanks
n.h.schmidt

[Texantothecore]

As I mentioned early on in this exploration, the powder to use is SWISS Null B, a very fine priming powder now used for flintlock rifles. This powder is easily ignited by spark from the hammer & frizzen, and is proven to be the fastest kind of priming powder for flintlock ignition and with a greater confined pressure.......thus it is very likely to ignite very quickly and with a higher pressure in a home made cap when using a paper cap as the primary ignition in the home made aluminum or brass cap cups. In the alternative a small mortar and pestle may be used to grind REAL BP to dust fineness, which is almost as quick and easy to ignite as the Null B, and with the same attributes. Someone has already mentioned a miniature dipper for the home made cap charge process. Thus a one cap ignition as primary would lead to greater power from the secondary ignition.

The search, work , and development shown here is nearing success.

BvT

Do you have any feel for the screen sizes for Swiss Null B? It sounds like fines, a very small screen size.

[wicket]

Speaking of available ingredients, i went with chlorate, sulfur and grit, works fine pressed into a copper cap, it even fires combustible cartridges, which surprised me, i didn't think it had that much zip. It's not the recipe i want to stick with since it's pretty dirty, but i wanted something to test the caps with, so went with what i had and was pleasantly surprised.