Making 45acp shotshells (My Way)

[littlejack]

Hey fellas:
I just finished loading some of the 45 acp shot loads for my stepson. I did change my recipe somewhat. Figured I would share
just in case anyone is interested.
I did post earlier on, on this thread that I made my dies about January of 2013. I used the C.E. Harris, NRA article to make the
dies from.
My first tried/proven loads were with 308 brass. I abandoned the 308 brass, and have been making them from 45 Winchester
Mag brass since then.
1. Turn the ejector groove to match 45 acp groove dimension.
2. After sizing, I flair the the case mouth. This helps get the opw started.
3. Prime the case.
4. I drop a 6 grain charge of the W231, using the Little Dandy and a #9 rotor.
5. Hand seat a .060 thick card wad, .425 dia. over the powder.
6. Weigh out 175 grains of 10-11 shot. I drop in about 1/3 of it and settle. Repeat two more times.
7. For over the shot, I use a 416 Gator check sized in the Lee push through to .410. Pointing down, it is seated with about .040-
.050 below the top of the case.
8. I then run it through the seat/crimp die to finish out the round. I made this die with a center stem, to hold the gas check in
place when crimping.

These loads are devastating to pop cans. I can imagine what they would do to a snake. What I liked about these
particular loads, is the amount of shot I was able to get into the case. I have used the Speer shot loads on rattlers before, but I
believe these will be much better, given the amount of shot in the load.
There is one glitch. There is a failure to eject (sometimes) being as these cases are long and straight after firing.
Has anyone else had this issue with their fired rounds? When they do eject, the case is ruined at the mouth.
I really don't care about saving the brass, but would like the empties to exit totally.
Any input?
Regards
Jack

[GRUMPA]

I'm getting closer to doing some more experimenting with these, and I mean with the powders. The 1 thing I didn't notice was what the case length was, I never used a 45 Win Mag and more than likely never will. I found out when I cut them a tad shorter I had better ejection, and I'm not getting any distortion at all.

I have a limited supply of Win231 but I have AA#2 and Unique that I wanted to try out. I traded for some #9 shot and was going to use that instead of #12 which to me is over-priced. But I sure can cram an awful lot of #12 in those cases, so I'll see how much #9 I can pack in there.

When I load mine I put the primer in then the powder then the over powder wad.....then I form the neck. I got tired of the colorful language I was hearing trying to get that over powder wad down the neck. Which to me was easier and I don't hear that drunken sailor language anymore.

[littlejack]

Grumpa:
Thanks for your reply and information.
I used full length 45 magnum brass.
What do you trim your brass length too? I didn't want to go too short, for fear of failures to feed. I may have to try trimming to
get them to consistently eject.
Jack

[GRUMPA]

I used to trim mine to 2.260 and had difficulties with cycling and extracting, never did cycle the action using B-Eye. It seems B-Eye was to fast of a powder causing the case to expand to much not in the chamber but the bore itself causing the brass to seem to want to grip the rifling. That's why I went with W231 which for me worked out great since I shortened the case to 2.200 and tried it with 2 different 1911's without an issue.

I had someone stop by and tried the loads in his 1911 and it wouldn't cycle his. But he told be it had a real heavy spring in it. Mine has the original spring, so that's why I didn't have any problems.

What I want to do is try different powders to find out if I can get some flexibility with the powders I have on hand. I feel I have the case length right so now I want to try different powders.

[littlejack]

My case length is 1.180.
I will shoot some of these in my other 45. Maybe the ejection glitch is just that particular pistol?

[George Tucker]

I use uncut 45 Win Mag cases, and #12 shot, kills Snakes better than any other size I tried, I shoot them in a Glock21, changed the Spring, and never have eject problems. I use a set of the old RCBS Dies.

[littlejack]

Thanks for the information George.
The spring is not the issue. I believe that it is the sharp edge of the case mouth that is getting hung up on the ejection port.

[taco650]

Could this be done for 9mm or. 40?

[xfoxofshogo]

i have done 9mm but ran in to you can get a lot of shot in them and the same with 40 . i did try using 9x23 or 9mm win mag brass it get stuck had some luck using 223 brass cut down


but 38spl and 357 or 44 mag works good

[GRUMPA]

Could this be done for 9mm or. 40?

Just like what was said already, making 9mm shot loads from 223 brass seems to be the easiest way. I've made them but have yet to try them since I don'town anything that small. For the 40 I was thinking of making those from 10mm cases but have yet to try it.....

[jmsj]

Let me know if this is thread drift.
I have a S&W N frame in 45 ACP, I was wondering (always dangerous) if anyone has tried leaving the .308 Win. case longer than semi-auto magazine length for use in revolvers?
I was wondering how big a payload could be used if left longer? My cylinder measures 1.537"long and about 0.080" sits behind the back of the cylinder with the moonclip installed. That could give a max C.O.A.L. of near 1.617".

Thanks,jmsj

[taco650]

Let me know if this is thread drift.
I have a S&W N frame in 45 ACP, I was wondering (always dangerous) if anyone has tried leaving the .308 Win. case longer than semi-auto magazine length for use in revolvers?
I was wondering how big a payload could be used if left longer? My cylinder measures 1.537"long and about 0.080" sits behind the back of the cylinder with the moonclip installed. That could give a max C.O.A.L. of near 1.617".

Thanks,jmsj

Just speculating but your proposal sounds like it would add a little more "payload" room because you're building the cases to fit your revolver. Make a few to fit your cylinder and trim them just short enough so it can rotate.

[willie_pete]

Let me know if this is thread drift.
I have a S&W N frame in 45 ACP, I was wondering (always dangerous) if anyone has tried leaving the .308 Win. case longer than semi-auto magazine length for use in revolvers?
I was wondering how big a payload could be used if left longer? My cylinder measures 1.537"long and about 0.080" sits behind the back of the cylinder with the moonclip installed. That could give a max C.O.A.L. of near 1.617".

Thanks,jmsj

I've done this with a 625 I have. I don't have the dimensions close by, but sized the top of the cut brass down with a .44 sizing die to fit the cylinder. Hasn't been a problem.

WP

[KRC]

Just like what was said already, making 9mm shot loads from 223 brass seems to be the easiest way. I've made them but have yet to try them since I don'town anything that small. For the 40 I was thinking of making those from 10mm cases but have yet to try it.....

You should try it with 6.8 spc brass it should have the same extractor grove and you'll have more to work with. If you have that many 10mm brass to deface I'll take them off your hands

[Alan in Vermont]

Well, I've been bitten by the bug!

I started with 308 cases. I don't have any 40 dies so I started witha 30-30 FL die. That one was too sharp cornered and was gouging the cases. I had bored out my 30-30 seater to give it some "funnel" so it would be easier to start cases with a boolit balanced on the mouth into the die. That worked great as the funnel started the new "neck" more centered on the case body and resulted in 14 formed cases with no loss.

I tried them all in a Lyman 45 ACP cartridge gauge and got the "shoulder" right so the cases fit in the gauge properly. I cut them to rough length with a 32 tooth hacksaw then trimmed to length and tried them in my barrel. They dropped in flush to the hood so I primed them and loaded one with 6.0 BE, a thin cardboard wad cut from a SFRB, and found there was room for 140 grs of #9 shot.

It was when I went to crimp the case mouths that I remembered I had loaned my 45 dies to another shooter. ARGH!!! The dies will be home in the morning so I will complete a few tomorrow evening.

I will get pics tomorrow as well.

[Alan in Vermont]

SUCCESS!! I test fired four rounds yesterday morning, they fed and cycled the gun flawlessly.

I had to drop the shot charge back to 130 grs., at 140 there wasn't room enough for the overshot wad.

Had issues getting the crimp to work. The RN seater was coming down right on the case mouth instead of just outside it. I ended up using a powder drop tube I made years ago and it has a an internal taper on the end that screws into the measure. The taper started large enough to turn the case mouth in, whack-a-mole style, enough for the RN seater to roll it in further.

I'm starting a batch of 50 now. I had 14 cases formed in the initial experimenting. No more 308 on hand but had 7mm-08 and 243 cases enough to make a full box.

Even got a pic of the forming in progress. Left to right, an original 7mm-08 case. A 243 case with the shoulder formed and set back, this case seats flush in my cartridge gauge and barrel. A fresh case, trimmed to length and primed. Lastly a fired case, It shows faint rifling marks on the neck but didn't grab the rifling enough to hinder extraction.

[taco650]

SUCCESS!! I test fired four rounds yesterday morning, they fed and cycled the gun flawlessly.

I had to drop the shot charge back to 130 grs., at 140 there wasn't room enough for the overshot wad.

Had issues getting the crimp to work. The RN seater was coming down right on the case mouth instead of just outside it. I ended up using a powder drop tube I made years ago and it has a an internal taper on the end that screws into the measure. The taper started large enough to turn the case mouth in, whack-a-mole style, enough for the RN seater to roll it in further.

I'm starting a batch of 50 now. I had 14 cases formed in the initial experimenting. No more 308 on hand but had 7mm-08 and 243 cases enough to make a full box.

Even got a pic of the forming in progress. Left to right, an original 7mm-08 case. A 243 case with the shoulder formed and set back, this case seats flush in my cartridge gauge and barrel. A fresh case, trimmed to length and primed. Lastly a fired case, It shows faint rifling marks on the neck but didn't grad the rifling enough to hinder extraction.

Great job! Congrats!

[Alan in Vermont]

Today I tried firing my some of myshotshells again. After the initial test, where four of them all cycled the gun, today was a bitter disappointment. Nothing was cycling right!

Before I loaded my next test rounds I annealed the cases. First by using a torch and got varying degrees of annealing colors showing up. After that I did a second batch of cases and annealed them by dipping the necks in 750° lead. Had better uniformity so I think that is the way to go.

Today I tried both the original 6 gr BE loads and others with 5.5 gr BE loads. Fired the 5.5 loads first and wasn't upset when they failed to cycle but the 6 gr loads failed as well. Only thing that has changed is the annealing, the initial four rounds were not annealed.

Maybe the softer necks are grabbing the rifling just enough to slow the slide down below the minimum energy level needed for cycling? Several of the rounds fired today failed to clear the barrel hood, others just never cycled far enough to get the case out of the chamber and the slide went into battery on the fired case.

I'm going to make up a few more, leaving the brass un-annealed this time.

Grumpa, have you gotten any further with your testing of WW 231? I wonder how 231 compares to WST as I don't have any 231 but have a couple pounds of WST.

I have obtained some #12 shot which I will hold off on using until I get the cycling issue sorted out.

I have written RCBS about a new seater stem. Mine was knife-edge thin at the tip and has flared out from forming the crimp. That changed the shape just enough that it went to crushing cases. I hate to see them turned into scrap on the very last step of the forming/loading process.

BTW, I charged powder and seated the OPW before I formed the neck this last batch. Sure makes the job easier that way.

[Johnny_V]

Today I tried firing my some of myshotshells again. After the initial test, where four of them all cycled the gun, today was a bitter disappointment. Nothing was cycling right!

Before I loaded my next test rounds I annealed the cases. First by using a torch and got varying degrees of annealing colors showing up. After that I did a second batch of cases and annealed them by dipping the necks in 750° lead. Had better uniformity so I think that is the way to go.

Today I tried both the original 6 gr BE loads and others with 5.5 gr BE loads. Fired the 5.5 loads first and wasn't upset when they failed to cycle but the 6 gr loads failed as well. Only thing that has changed is the annealing, the initial four rounds were not annealed.

Maybe the softer necks are grabbing the rifling just enough to slow the slide down below the minimum energy level needed for cycling? Several of the rounds fired today failed to clear the barrel hood, others just never cycled far enough to get the case out of the chamber and the slide went into battery on the fired case.

I'm going to make up a few more, leaving the brass un-annealed this time.

Grumpa, have you gotten any further with your testing of WW 231? I wonder how 231 compares to WST as I don't have any 231 but have a couple pounds of WST.

I have obtained some #12 shot which I will hold off on using until I get the cycling issue sorted out.

I have written RCBS about a new seater stem. Mine was knife-edge thin at the tip and has flared out from forming the crimp. That changed the shape just enough that it went to crushing cases. I hate to see them turned into scrap on the very last step of the forming/loading process.

BTW, I charged powder and seated the OPW before I formed the neck this last batch. Sure makes the job easier that way.

Alan,

I have been following this thread for some time now and have asked quite a few fellow shooters about this. One fellow told me he had cycling problems using the cardboard over powder wads and cardboard over shot cards. He went on to tell me that his best results came from using the 410 wad cut to 3/4" (not remembering the exact load) and the 37 caliber gas check. It was his belief that this combination gave the pressure needed to cycle the action.

Currently I am working on my own setup for creating 45ACP Shotshells (My Way). (Grumpa - Sorry for using your catch phrase) When I get my technique down to a science, I'll be posting my results......

[GRUMPA]

Alan, I tried a couple of different powders, both of which were complete failures in the cycling the action dept. 1 of them was AA#2 and I can't remember the other off hand. I know I wrote notes so I'll have to read those.

Annealing from what I've experienced does indeed want to grab the rifling and does so rather well so I abandoned the annealing all together.

Now keep in mind when I tried the different powder I was using #9 shot which by weight is less than using #12 shot. I got some #9 in a trade and wanted to use that. I'm also considering using commercial brass because some will hold just a bit more payload than mil brass. I was noticing the slide wasn't really moving back very far when using the other powders.

In the end it seems 231 is the best powder for this project. And now I use a 35cal aluminum gas check for the over shot card and it forms rather well when crimped in place. I still use the cardboard over powder wad and I put the primer, powder, and over powder wad in first then I form the neck, saves on the colorful drunken sailor talk.

Right now I'm up to my neck in conversions as well as working on 2 new cartridges for the AR platform so this sits on the back burner for now. But I'm thinking I'll need to stay with using #12 shot for maximum payload, seems the heavier the payload the better they work.