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Thread: Making 45acp shotshells (My Way)

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by xacex View Post
    Well, I tried and failed. All I got were off center crushed necks. It seems that my brass is to thick to be squeezed down that easy. I used unsized 308 brass, and lubed liberally, but the 40 S&W die would not let my brass be sized evenly.
    Just thinking out loud, maybe work it down in stages progressively smaller dies, IE work from the seating die to the sizer. Maybe has to do with GRUMPA different brands of dies, maybe the brass needs to be annealed.

  2. #22
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    Quick question for GRUMPA, what dia. does the 40 cal die size the brass down to and is your brass commerical or LC? I made a set of dies using a set of plans from the internet and they will cycle my RIA 1911 every time. The spent brass will have the rifling grooves engraved in it.I used LC 308 brass which is thicker than commerical brass. At 15 ft using 410 wads these pattern good. If the 40 cal sizing die sizes the brass smaller than mine I will buy one to use on my brass.Thanks

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by xacex View Post
    Well, I tried and failed. All I got were off center crushed necks. It seems that my brass is to thick to be squeezed down that easy. I used unsized 308 brass, and lubed liberally, but the 40 S&W die would not let my brass be sized evenly.
    When I tried to size the necks with my 41mag sizer (LEE) I got the exact same results, I got out my 40cal sizer (RCBS) and the problem got solved. I noticed between the 2 that the 40cal sizer has a much larger I.D. chamfer/radius at the mouth of the die and came to the conclusion it was the larger chamfer/radius at the mouth of the die that made all the difference. Latter I'll try and take a picture of the 2 and post them here to give folks a visual which seems to help. Thing is my El-Cheapo camera has a hard time with those up close pictures so for me it seems I need to take about 10 pictures and find the one that's the best.

    Quote Originally Posted by owejia View Post
    Quick question for GRUMPA, what dia. does the 40 cal die size the brass down to and is your brass commerical or LC? I made a set of dies using a set of plans from the internet and they will cycle my RIA 1911 every time. The spent brass will have the rifling grooves engraved in it.I used LC 308 brass which is thicker than commerical brass. At 15 ft using 410 wads these pattern good. If the 40 cal sizing die sizes the brass smaller than mine I will buy one to use on my brass.Thanks
    I went and did a couple more this morning since it's snowing outside and I have to spend the day inside anyway and the neck Dia. is .416. I also checked the Dia. after I fired them and those came out to .445 with some noticeable size difference from the rifling. I use whichever brass I have be it 06 or 308 and they are Mil or foreign, the foreign are KA (Korean) head stamp and they act the same for me and the domestic are LC. As far as domestic brass it's all Mil brass and treat anything else I have with care, hope that helps.
    Click to see what I'm doing and have available, this takes you to the VS (Vendor Sponsor) section of the site. Currently..25Rem,30Rem, 32Rem, 35Rem, 257Roberts, 358Win, 338Fed, 357 Herrett, 30 Herrett, 401 Winchester, 300Sav, 221 Fireball, 260Rem, 222Rem, 250 Savage, 8mm Mauser (AKA 8x57), 25-20WCF

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  4. #24
    Boolit Master

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    I seem to recall from the article that they said the 308 brass would be easier on your extractor ?? The extractor rim recess is bigger ??
    Both ends WHAT a player

  5. #25
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    Thanks GRUMPA ! I think Ill give it a go . After cutting off though Ill anneal to where shoulder will be and see it that helps .

  6. #26
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    I would suggest, as a very necessary step, to no longer shorten '06 brass for this shotshell construction.

    Reason is that the extractor groove is of insufficient size to properly accept the 1911's extractor, and premature wear from excessive deflection can result. It is not case material but rather extractor groove dimensions of the case that determines whether the extractor is properly engaged or not.

    Just a gentle caution to those wanting to try this. Stick with an extractor groove that more closely fits the 45 ACP spec. That would be the 308 case.

  7. #27
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    I made these from 308 blank brass . I experimented with making the case longer and loading single shot, but having the case longer than the throat made the case stick in the rifling. I used a 41 mag. size die with no problems. I also used the foam take out tray wads and glued the overshot wad with tub and tile caulk. I took a bird out of the air from more than 20 yds. I kept the charges low using BE and cycled the action by hand. Heavier charges blew holes in the patterns for me. You can get a good amount of #9 shot in the extended case and reloading them need no further sizing with the low charges. Using the barrel for a sizing gauge until a case seats properly then run the rest of the cases makes the process go quickly.

  8. #28
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    308 brass is the way to go. The 30-06 brass is not recommended.

  9. #29
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    I've got the RCBS shotshell set, minus the cut and trim die, coming soon.
    I have .308 brass to play with, so I'll see how that goes. Presuming all goes well, I'll be happy to do a trade for formed cases.

  10. #30
    subscribed for info

  11. #31
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    dbosman, I will be very interested in hearing how the die set works for you. Does RCBS still catalog it? Or did you find a used one? I have only seen one set and at the time I had no interest. I would like to have a die set but I imagine I will try what GRUMPA has shown here. Thanks.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Dingo View Post
    Just thinking out loud, maybe work it down in stages progressively smaller dies, IE work from the seating die to the sizer. Maybe has to do with GRUMPA different brands of dies, maybe the brass needs to be annealed.
    Good points. I did try using the seating die first on a couple, and it didn't help, but the annealing beforehand may help a bit. I also cut mine shorter than Grumpa to begin with at 1.25 in.

    Grumpa, I tried it with the Lee brand instead of RCBS. That issue with the chamfer in the Lee may be the problem. Oh well, It was worth a shot.
    Last edited by xacex; 02-25-2013 at 12:36 AM.

  13. #33
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    This is some really good info, I really want to give this a try.
    A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America " for an amount of "up to and including my life."

  14. #34
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    I have one of the dies sets, I bought new a long time ago. I also used AA410 wads. They worked real well. Would have to go grab the die box to see what the powder charge was.

  15. #35
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    Great write up. Have to put this on my list of things too try.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master dbosman's Avatar
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    I got lucky and found a used set down state from me.
    RCBS still lists them on the Special Order Catalog.
    Current, online list prices:
    $161.95 RCBS # 56552 .45 Auto Shotshell, group H
    $ 96.95 RCBS # 58378 .45 Auto (.45 ACP) Shotshell from .308 Win, group H
    $ 12.95 Extended Shell Holder - 1 1/4" Long (No provision for depriming or priming)

    http://www.huntingtons.com lists them, but only shows the price for the form & trim # 58378
    It's going to be interesting.

  17. #37
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    Here you Go.
    Classifieds Home1 / General / Guns | Hunting
    Ad Number: A272550
    RCBS .45 ACP Shot Shell Forming Die Sets (Glennallen, Alaska)
    Price : $175
    Reply to : Telephone Contacts
    Telephone : 907-822-4282
    For the advanced reloader who only thought he had it all. This die set allows you to load shot shells in your 45 ACP. It actually requires 2 die sets (RCBS 55000 & 58378). Included are 20 formed cases that I produced a few years ago from 308 brass.



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  18. #38
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    Today I formed a few 308 brass into the required necked down cases. I haven't loaded them yet. Since I don't have a good means to cut the cases down, I made a case holder for my vice. I started with a couple of 3"X4" 3/4" pine boards. I sandwiched them together in my portable vice on the drill press table. I drilled a 15/32nd hole in the center at the seam of the two boards. I drilled the hole 1.26" deep such that the 308 case could be sandwiched in the hole at the proper depth for cutting with a hack saw while held in the vice. I tried to cut the case just slightly proud of the top of the holder. I then filed the brass down to the surface of the boards. The result was a nice .308 case 1.26" long. I followed GRUMPA's instructions from there and trimmed the cases with my hand trimmer to 1.25. After chamfering I annealed the ends of the cases for a fast count to nine in the torch flame. I then formed the neck using my 40S&W sizing die. I couldn't get the 41 Mag die to work for me either. I will caution that for me the neck came to proper length for chambering sooner than I expected and I over sized two cases before I got the hang of it. I am anxious to finish the loading a shoot a few for pattern. This is a good project and one I can afford to do. I would love to have a die set but at those prices I don't see it in the future for me. This procedure appears to produce a very satisfactory looking piece of brass that chambers just right. Now if the roll crimp will work. The resizing was harder than I anticipated even with a coating of sizing wax.
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  19. #39
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    smoked turkey, if you get done with your little project could you post a couple of pictures of the finished product? The whole point of me putting this up in the first place was to give folks the idea to either progress somehow with the basic knowledge or expand on it and kinda fine tune the process. Trust me, I just make do with what I have the cheapest I can and get satisfactory results, if someone out there in CB land comes up with something better I'm all ears.
    Click to see what I'm doing and have available, this takes you to the VS (Vendor Sponsor) section of the site. Currently..25Rem,30Rem, 32Rem, 35Rem, 257Roberts, 358Win, 338Fed, 357 Herrett, 30 Herrett, 401 Winchester, 300Sav, 221 Fireball, 260Rem, 222Rem, 250 Savage, 8mm Mauser (AKA 8x57), 25-20WCF

    Annealing Services

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/foru...php?117-Grumpa






  20. #40
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    The biggest improvements one could make to this system is to increase the shot payload to at least 200 grains and use a gas check upside down as an overshot cap such that it could be crimped hard in there. Providing something for the powder to work against will build enough pressure to cycle the action with normal charges of fast-burning powder.

    I ran into this with my revolver shotshell development. When I started approaching normal boolit weights with the shot payload it started coming together. One of the challenges here, obviously, is getting shot bridging in the "neck". In order to fit 200 grains in there more than half of it would be back in the case body. This bottlenecking of shot, together with annealed necks, might make for some sticky extraction and possibly high pressures, so approach my suggestions with caution.

    One other thing that might help is to use a sort of punch and base to make a round-nose cap out of a .44 gas check and roll-crimp that into the neck. Might get a few more BBs in there that way.

    Gear

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check