put your favourite Trapdoor loads and boolit here.

[rollmyown]

I'm looking for a nice original Trapdoor to shoot. I have no experience yet with these rifles. BP is very difficult to get here so smokeless loadings are welcome. (please feel free to include BP loadings)

How suitable would the Mihec HB group buy mould be? Do they prefer heavy or perform better in the 400 gn area?


Pics of groups, reloads and rifles welcome!!

[John Allen]

I use a 400 grain Lyman mold with a plain base. They are pan lubed and loaded with 60 grains of blackpowder. I use a .060 overwad a cookie of spg and then a wool wad underneath the bullet.

[Nobade]

Mine shoots great with Lyman #457125 cast from 20:1, lubed with Emmert's lube, loaded over 70gr. KIK FFg droptubed and compressed to allow the boolit to seat to the right length.

I am one of those old style guys who won't shoot smokeless in a trapdoor or other rifle designed for black powder.

As for BP availability, if you are where UPS can get to you then BP is easily available.

-Nobade

[RobsTV]

Start with this and you can't go wrong:

http://www.4570book.info/

Nice Original Trapdoor and Smokeless do not belong in the same paragraph.

Shoot the Nice Original Trapdoor with what it was intended to shoot, soft lead and a full case of slightly compressed black powder. No scale needed. Drop tube helps a lot before compressing.

Best results here with hollow base Lee mold 459-405-HB as dropped, on top of 66gr FFg compressed .216, 2.52 oal and crimp.

18:1 mix
5.22%sn, 94.8%pb, 10.1 BHN

Hi Vel:,1387
Low Vel:,1361
Ave Vel:,1377
Ext Spread:,26
Std Dev:,10

Above with original 1884 45-70 slugged at .458.

[Bullshop]

As usual I am going to go against the grain. First of all after living in Alaska for many years I know that not everyone can have BP delivered by UPS since for those many years I had to make due without.
The one single SMOKLESS load I use most is with 21gn 2400 under about any Postell or PP type boolit from 500 to 530gn. I fill the remainder of the case with styrofoam packing popcorn and compress it with the boolit.
The load gives 1270 average fps with extreme spread in the teens. 1270 to 1330 was the required velocity range to be accepted by the Gov. for service. This velocity range will work with the correct sight settings appropriate for the 500gn boolit weight if you have the correct front sight.
I have an extra model 1884 with about a mint bore that I would consider trading although at the moment I have no idea what I would want to trade for.
I hope Lord willing that I will get to shoot in the TD class at the Quiggley this year.

[Coffeecup]

Kinda embarrassing to admit, but one of my favorite Trapdoor loads has always been 45 grains of FFg under a paper-patched Lyman 452374 (230 RN for the 45 auto). It makes a great load for 25 and 50 yard plinking, even in rifles with oversized chambers and bores.

[rockrat]

The load I use in my 1884 TD is a 425 gr Lee GB boolit over 27gr of 5744. I put a card wad over the powder , then fill the rest of the case with grits to when I seat the boolit, it compresses the grits about 1/8". Shot an 8" group @325yds , open sights , with this load. With my eyes, thats pretty good. 1.5-2" @100yds.

The gun is in great shape. Bought it from an intermediary, who said it came from an 80ish yr old widow, who told him it had belonged to her husbands Grandfather. One of my favorite 45-70's to shoot.

[725]

420 gr boolit with:
30 gr 4198
40 gr 3031

round ball with:
9 gr Unique

[M-Tecs]

All my TD's shoot great with Lyman's #457124, & 457125 cast from WW plus 2% tin over 10 grains Unique. Most of the original TD's have large bores so you may have to beagle your mold to get it to cast large enough. My only original bore is .461 but I have seen them as large as .465.

[John Boy]

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/shooterstext.html
Scroll to bottom of site for reloads

[rollmyown]

I appreciate the sentiment about BP. It may as well be called unobtanium here. Thanks to all posters so far. Keep em coming.

[RobsTV]

Where are you located? You can add this location to your profile, which might help as others in the area you are in should know more.

Consider that a pound of BP is a little more than 100 rounds.
So ordering 5 pounds at around $100 delivered, which includes haz-mat fees, is not out of line. Or, perhaps others near you will let you test some BP yourself. Even better, many times a group will place a BP order and get it cheaper to split between them. But without your location, no one knows if they can assist you.

Easy to get the fever once you shoot it. The smell, noise, smoke and accuracy, and something inside that makes you smile as all your senses give you a taste of how the gun was shot 125 years ago. More BP guns usually follow. Clean up is as easy as smokeless when you use the right powder, boolit and lube.

One reason why I am so keen on BP is it's simplicity.
After fooling with several smokeless powders in the 45-70, never getting any sort of accuracy, the switch to BP just made everything fall instantly into place. I was in the same boat as you, with Black Powder unobtainable. Finally picked some up on one of my long overnight road trips from a tiny old time gun dealer. Continued to find some during travels, and finally placed my first online order from Powder Inc a month ago.

Then there is the risk of damage that smokeless can cause in our softer iron original BP barrels. The photos of damage caused by "improperly" using smokeless at the above link posted by John Boy are not unusual. The normal rules do not apply. You need to be extra careful since these were not made to withstand the pressures possible with smokeless. After getting a Chronograph, I went to test some of my old smokeless 45-70 loads, and the first one measured 1806fps!!! Needless to say, I pulled the remaining and discarded that powder. I got lucky. Note that this was not any sort of double charge, but simply loading by using the charge tables for smokeless, yet most likely using data for modern 45-70, not an original, or maybe not having a wad or extra filler? That could not happen with a full case of real BP.

BP just works.

[rollmyown]

I live in Australia. With layers of regulations most gun shops are unable to get or to store BP. Many shops here even have a 50 kilo stock limit on smokeless powder. BP is definetely not able to be bought online or by any other means here and have it delivered.
I envy your access to a wide variety of powders at prices we in Australia can only dream about (even taking into account your recent price hikes)

I totally agree that BP is the preferred propellant, but if it can not be got then you have to make do with what you can get.

First things first, I need to find a good original rifle. I prefer antiques and I don't think the replicas have the same character or "feel"

[curator]

The Lee .459-405 boolit cast of pure lead with about 1% tin added, unsized with 23 grains of SR4759 is a great Trapdoor load. I hand lube mine with a 50/50 bee's wax/lard lube and put a hard felt wad under the boolit to keep any melted lube out of the powder column. Slugs drop out of my mould at .462 when cast hot (850 degrees) Very accurate in several Trapdoor rifles and carbines as well as other .45-70 rifles too.

[fouronesix]

rollmyown,
My best trapdoor loads with smokeless are similar to curator's. Fairly soft alloy, gas checked 420 gr bullet sized to about .461 over 5744 (very similar ballistically to 4759) with dacron filler for muzzle velocities in the 1100-1200 fps range.

[dale2242]

My 1884 Trapdoor likes Lyman 457124HP at 385 grs. with 30 gr. 4198.
It shoots this load to the issue sights POA.....dale

[smkummer]

Lyman 457192-350 grain and 457124-385 (acutally weighs 405 grains with WW alloy) grain with 14.5 grains unique in my H&R repro officers model. Cheap, fun, accurate and just 50 FPS shy of factory velocity. What is not to like?

[Larry Gibson]

My "favorite" TD loads are the Rapine 460210HB over 6 gr of Bullsye or the Rapine 460250 (mine drops at 275 gr) over 8 gr Bullseye cast of range lead with 2% tin added + 50% lead. Both are sized .4615 and lubed with my own BP lube or with BAC. In larger groove TDs I shoot the 460210HB as cast at .464 - .465 TL'd in LLA. The 460250s at 1050 fps out of my H&R LBH and OM are amazingly accurate to 500 yards.

Below is a lineup of my 45-70 cast bullets; the 460210HB & 460250 are the 2 on the left.

Larry Gibson

Attachment 61846Attachment 61847

[Cmasailor]

I followed some advice on loading pyrodex in my 50-70 and i'm happy hits what i aim at and went through an eight inch tree ( for the record I had to cut it down anyway due to power lines) Just enough in the case to compress it a 16th of an inch under the lee version of the 450grn original. Real BP is scarce in my parts, and I cant afford to order a case.

[Norbrat]

I appreciate the sentiment about BP. It may as well be called unobtanium here. Thanks to all posters so far. Keep em coming.

Rob, if I'd known you need some 45/70 boolits, I would have included some in the care package! I've got 5 moulds which would give a nice variety for you to try. Maybe I'll have to put another bag together for you.

As for BP, it's not that hard to find in Oz. Our club buys it in bulk and sells it off. Try your local SSAA club; surely they must have some BP tragics there. If you get really stuck, let me know and I will ask around. Someone will know someone in Tassie who can help you with it.

As for smokeless powder, I use ADI exclusively now. Had a can of 2400 recently, but that didn't do anything better than AR2205 for me. And a lot of IMR & Hogdon powder in the USA is ADI powder anyway, just repackaged and renamed.

and I think there is little point in developing a pet load with imported powder, only to find it's not available when you are getting ready for a big comp.