From Trailbosss to Uniquie, OMG, what a difference!

[moptop]

I have a Winchester '92 in .38-40 and have been using 5.0 grns of Trailboss under a 180grn lead boolet with very good results. Well the last time I reloaded my empty brass I decided to try a load suggested by several folks here using Unique. So I loaded up 10 rounds using 8.0 grns to see how they would do. Holy cow, what a difference! 5 shot groups went from 3.0" at 25 yds to overlapping shots. My brother also has a '92 and he had the same results when shot from his rifle. I guess these old gals really like them coming out a little faster. I don't have a chrony but the Trailboss data shows 600-800fps for 4.5 grn-5.5 grn loads. My old Lyman book shows 1190fps for 8.0 grn of Unique. Could it be that the Unique load is closer in vel. to a BP load which might explain the improvement in accuracy? Does anyone know what kind of velocity a holy black load would produce from this caliber? I would like to know.

My brother and I are having a blast (no pun intended) shooting these old rifles. He also has a '73 in .38-40 an it's a peach as well. I've been hoping to add a Winchester or Marling in .25-20 to my collection, if I can find one at a half way decent price that is.

[jmort]

I have to laugh when people run down Unique. It is accurate, versatile, and not position sensitive. What's not to like.

[uscra112]

I have to laugh when people run down Unique. It is accurate, versatile, and not position sensitive. What's not to like.

And I'm still wondering why people still praise TrailBoss. It would not out shoot any of my traditional powders in anything I tried. Only thing "wrong" with Unique is that it shoots dirtier than modern powders. Big deal.

[jmort]

I don't agree that is dirty per se. Loads at mid to high end shoot cleaner.

[moptop]

and not position sensitive.

Now I tried Trailboss for the simple reason that I had no experience with .38-40, and loading for 100+ year old rilfes I wanted to make sure I didn't over pressure them and position sensitivity. Now that I know Unquie will work that's what I'll use from now on, and it's cheaper too. Trailboss may come in the same size bottle as say IMR4895 but there's only 9 oz in it, not 16 oz because it's so bulky. Higher price and less per bottle. Hmmmm!

I use Unique in .38spl 184 grn wad cutter loads and it's the best I've found for that. I've found that if I put a little more roll crimp on them the powder burns cleaner and more complete. Same goes for Bullseye. They are my 2 most used powders.

[Don McDowell]

Ok now that you've tried unique, I think you're really going to like bludot in the 38wcf.
Yup trailboss is for mousephlatulance loads that fill the case, with accuracy enough to hit a pickup door sized target at 15 yds, and for what it was designed for it works really well, but there are better choices for accuracy and velocity.

[moptop]

mousephlatulance loads

......and I'm still laughing!

[Ragnarok]

I've been using Trail Boss in .45-70 behind home-cast 405gr bullets...makes a nice 'non-trapdoor exploding' soft-recoil load. The accuracy is really good from an ancient Springfield trapdoor rifle and a Browning 1886 src

I did notice that the published starting loads for Trail Boss in .45-70 with the 405gr bullet weight yielded less accuracy and more 'crud' in the bore. Stepping the charge up to published max and it shoots cleaner and better..These are my plinking loads from the Browning and my main load for the old Springfield.

[Jack Stanley]

There are lots of good reasons to use Unique all the way from .22 Hornet up to 45/70 and beyond . My uses are for rifle and pistol and it works great in all of the tasks I've found for it . I have a 1903 with several thousand rounds down the barrel that hasn't seen brush or patch and it is still accurate .

Jack

[Don McDowell]

'non-trapdoor exploding'

Have you looked at the pressures that **** generates? Runs just about twice bp loads, and well over the pressures of many of the better suited smokeless powders, and yields only about 3/4 of the velocity at best. Then if you sit down and put some calculations to cost per round of just the powder in a 45-70, it's a wonder anybody even thinks about using the stuff in rifle cartridges..

[williamwaco]

I have to laugh when people run down Unique. It is accurate, versatile, and not position sensitive. What's not to like.

And if you haven't noticed, it is now new and improved - "Burns Cleaner"

http://www.alliantpowder.com/product...er/unique.aspx



I Love it!

[1Shirt]

If I were forced to minimize the number of powders on hand, Unique would be very high on the keepers list!
1Shirt!

[hunter64]

I use Unique in virtually all my handguns and a lot of my rifles also. I tried Trailboss and I could not get anything to shoot straight with it. Now my powder supply basically is 8 LBS. of 2400, Unique, IMR3031, Win748 and a couple of one pound powders that I have found to be accurate for certain rifles.

I use Unique almost 2 to 1 of all the other powders that I use.

[tiwimon]

If I were forced to minimize the number of powders on hand, Unique would be very high on the keepers list!
1Shirt!

Me too - if I can find any! In the short time I have been reloading, its my favorite - even though it meters a bit less easily than W231

Down to less than 2# - for a newbie reloader (and caster) its been darn tough to look back at my initial purchase of just a pound of this or a pound of that and not wish I had gone for broke and bought 8# of Unique at teh time based on just recommendations from you guys here?!?!

BTW - mousephlatulance <--- word of the week

[veeman]

Hmm, well I have used Unique in my 44-40's for years till I tried TrailBoss. TB shrunk the groups quite a bit. Guess every gun has their favorites. I'm not giving up my Unique tho, got plenty other guns it shoots well in.

[fouronesix]

I don't have a chrony but the Trailboss data shows 600-800fps for 4.5 grn-5.5 grn loads. My old Lyman book shows 1190fps for 8.0 grn of Unique. Could it be that the Unique load is closer in vel. to a BP load which might explain the improvement in accuracy? Does anyone know what kind of velocity a holy black load would produce from this caliber? I would like to know.

I wouldn't get caught up in comparing smokeless velocities/pressures with blackpowder velocities/pressures. Nor would I get caught up in the cutesy lingo of 'mousefart' this, that or the other. A blackpowder round producing a bunch of smoke and heavy recoil with a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps doesn't mean it is more powerful than a smokeless round with less recoil and a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps! Trailboss is nothing more or less than a smokeless powder that is in the burn rate range of Bullseye and 700X but happens to be very low density. It's the low density that affords it the properties of excellent metering and the "safety" feature of preventing double charges in many cases.

If you look in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook or other data there are several smokeless powders that produce blackpowder similar velocities. Again, that does not translate at all to similar pressures. The standard (not high high velocity!) Win factory data for the 38-40 shows about 1160 fps for the 180 gr bullet. Get Venturino's book Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West for good, solid data and write-ups on many lever cartridges including the 38-40.

[Doc Highwall]

I see where a lot of people are confusing low velocities of TrailBoss with low pressures.

If you look at the loads for your cartridge you will see that TrailBoss has just about the highest pressures with the lowest velocities.

Think about the pressures with your soft lead alloy and what it does to accuracy.

[rexherring]

Trail Boss is great for it's intended use, low recoil Cowboy Action shooting. I use it for plinking but prefer Unique for most everything else. Works great in short barrel snubies for the ladies and their lightweight .38's.

[joec]

I load 45 Colt for my wife using trailboss and found it very accurate up to about 50 yards. I like Unique form my loads in the same gun types SAA. Now my 45-70 I do load 13 gr of Trailboss behind a 405 gr bullet for target/plinking load. I also find it very accurate out to about 100 yards. For hunting however it is IMR 4198, 3031 and RL-7 for the 45-70. I use Lil-Gun behind a RD 290 gr or a 300 gr Lee cast bullet for hunting loads in my 45 Colt rifle.

[PS Paul]

That Ranch Dog 290 gr. boolit you mention, Joe, is the most accurate boolit I have EVER shot ina Blackhawk in nearly 40 years of shootin'! Even though it's a TL design, I still put it through my lubesizer and have found that it seems to be enough lube in all those grooves to work just dandy. Haven't tried Lil gun in that caliber/boolit combination, but I ahve used LG in .357 loads. Maybe I'll try that LG with that 290 gr. and see?