Loading homemade slugs

[mike_kaleigh]

your guys gun laws suck!!!!!!!!!!!!! here in the usa our law make a little more scene, though our political leader really do not know the difference between a lot of guns. they think just because it is an ak47, or ar15 its only uses are for killing people. or really don't understand differences between semi, or fully automatic even both are legal. if we did not have the second amendment we would be in the same boat as you. my wife and i have had our conceal carry for 3 years now and it feels weird not to have a handgun on me, kinda like not having your wallet. one of the funniest laws or a way to get around it, is we cant import assault weapons into the usa (but we can make them) but what the importers do, is take the guns apart, ship them in and reassemble the with a few american parts, and now you have a legal imported assault weapon. only in the usa. i bet in the us there are more guns than people.

[AnnieOakley]

Funny thing is that i use styrofoam as a wad in my full power slugs.


And they look almost prestine and reuseable after firing. But when i compress them with my fingers they stay flattened, go figure.

PS. Maybe they act non Newtonian? I.e. like quicksand and custard.

Chicken Thief,
Have you tried using the spray foam insulation? It's called "Great Stuff" in the US. A custom Brenneke wad can be easily made in a make-shift injection mold using pvc pipe as a die. A soon as I get a cylinder bore choke I can do some testing.
CoalHog (AnnieOakley typing )

[Chicken Thief]

Ahh but i dont want anything stuck to the bottom of the boolit, i shoot a rifle.
It is only there to ocupy space. And by now i have proper wads to take the place of the styrofoam.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Things are progressing nicely. We have a bunch of hard plastic block at work from a previous job. Don't know what type of plastic it is, but it is extremely strong and tough. Each block is good for fifteen wads. I think I'll try machining a lip profile in the bottom of the wads and maybe skip using a separate seal wad.

I hope to send some slugs downrange during the weekend if time permits it.

[jmort]

Nice work. You have put a lot of thought into this project and it shows. Looking forward to test results.

[longbow]

Very nice Cap'n Morgan! Those do look good!

If you can turn an integral seal that is probably your best choice as long as the plastic is flexible enough. I wouldn't go too thin on the trailing edge though or it may fail as it leave the muzzle. Probably better thick than thin. Those nice grooves around the wad should stop any minor leakage especially if you are running 0.005" over bore size (I think that's what you said anyway).

Looking good to go!

Looking forward to range report!

Longbow

[Cap'n Morgan]

Yesterday I assembled five slugs and loaded them on top of a seal wad and 25 grains of Herco. I haven't got around to finding a roll crimper and just ran them through the star crimp on my MEC. They sat pretty deep and the star crimp ended up as a very deep roll crimp. I thought of shortening the shells, but decided that a full length shell would guide the slug better through the forcing cone. (perhaps a 3" case would be even better)



Today it was off to the range to test the slugs. I decided on using my semi-auto Beretta which can be mounted with a holo sight and has a skeet barrel. At 45 yards I managed to miss a two by three' cardboard target completely, but at least the gun didn't explode and the shell ejected nicely. I moved to 30 yards and tried again. Another miss, but this time my shooting buddy - who was standing at a safe distance! - noticed the slug hitting just above the target. I then aimed at the bottom of the target and fired the remaining three shots from squatting position. The first two shot printed less than two inches apart while the last one opened the group to 5". When studying the target, the first two shots had cut two perfectly round holes, while the last "flier" had hit at a slight angle.



We didn't find any traces of the slugs in the frozen ground - only one of the seal wads which apparently had been squeezed so hard against the base that it had locked onto it. If you look at the picture you can clearly see the imprint of the screw head - in fact, the wad had actually been pierced by the pressure at the rim of the screw.



Well, back to work to make a few wads, this time with a skirt cut in the bottom. (the machining time for five wads is a little less than six minutes so no big deal) I talked to the boss and learned that the plastic was actually POM - a plast material which, according to Wiki " is characterized by its high strength, hardness and rigidity" - Sounds just right.

Five more slugs was loaded...



Notice how deep the slugs are sitting. I think I need a wad or a nitro card under the slug:


Back to the range! Light was fading quickly and it was blowing & snowing so no crono or pics. This time I shot from 50 yards and had placed the aiming point low at the target. The five shots printed into a 9 x 4" group - no signs of tumbling. At first I was a bit puzzled; the group was twice as wide as it was high, but then I realized I was shooting an auto loader with the sight mounted on the reciever - not the barrel. When I tried grabbing the barrel, it was rocking like a loose tooth!

To sum it up: I'm pretty pleased with the results so far and pretty sure the load kan be futher improved upon. I have a few things still, I'd like to try...

[45 2.1]

Cap'n-
Here is something to try............ place a copper washer (at least as big in diameter as the slug and smaller than the wad) between the slug and plastic base wad. A U.S. penny is too large, but very close to the right size.

[Chicken Thief]

Hi mate, have you tried www.siarm.com ?
They are fast and very cheap.
A rollcrimper cost @ €6 and a bag of wads €2½

[longbow]

Looking good Cap'n!

Yes, wads and or gas seals have been my constant problem as well. Your machined wads look good though and with a beefy integral seal may do the trick. I am liking your slug/wad combo for sure.

I have been planning to get out shooting my copper skirted Brennekes for the last two weeks but have been kinda sick so haven't shot yet.

There are at least three of us working on Brenneke like slugs currently. I hope at least one of us succeeds!

Keep up the good work!. I am looking forward to more range reports and hope to be posting my own shortly.

Longbow

[Cap'n Morgan]

Hi mate, have you tried www.siarm.com ?
They are fast and very cheap.
A rollcrimper cost @ €6 and a bag of wads €2½

Much interesting stuff at the Siarm link. Think I'll order some of the plastic seal wads and perhaps some of the "sandwiched" old-style wads. And a roll crimper, of couse...

[Cap'n Morgan]

So far I hadn't been able to recover any of my new slugs. Today I tried a couple of shots in a nearby gravel pit which holds some very fine grained sand. The first slug penetrated about six inches an was remarkably undamaged - there was no sign of the wad, however, perhaps because I didn't countersink the head of the screws and they only held on by a single turn. The next one penetrated a full foot, was even less damaged and it still had the wad attached.




Two of the ribs shows signs of contact with the forcing cone, but only over half the rib length and the slug is still perfectly round. Amazingly, there's no measurable setback lengthwise on the second slug. Any weight loss is less than the variation during casting. BTW, the combined slug weight (slug,wad & screw) is 570 grains.



No sign of damage to the wad, whatsoever. But the soot between the ribs seem to indicate som gas blow-by. Also, both the two powders I tried so far - Herco and Steel - leaves some residue in the barrel. It seems slug loads has less initial friction than normal shot loads - or perhaps it's just because my loads gets a running start due to the deep seating.

Next step will be testing various sorts of designs for the bottom of the wad. The more hollow base I can get away with, the better. The screw can be shorter and center of gravity will move forward.

[Chicken Thief]

Forget about center of gravity.
Think lawn dart or real dart arrow.
Drag is whats doing its mojo and keeping the heavy end up front.

On a related note: I will pick up a shotgun barrel for my Maverick on thursday. So now i can add my own slug tests.

[longbow]

Looking very good Cap'n Morgan! I had trouble with my original Brenneke design, which looked a lot like your slug, but your attached wad is much more rigid than mine was. Mine canted in the forcing cone and crushed ribs which did nothing good for accuracy.

Like Chicken Thief, I am hoping I will also be able to add shooting results from my copper skirted Brennekes next weekend.

This should be fun and interesting! Lots going on in the slug world around here!

Longbow

[Chicken Thief]

I have loaded up a little for sunday. That rotten no good right front paw wont hold a 3lb sledgehammer for spit! Thing has gone lazy from 13 days of feeling comfy. This will end!!!

Loadings:
5 with swaged boolits and liaded like a Brenneke, over powder wad and felt wad sandviched between two cardboard discs.
5 735 roundballs attached to a feltwad
5 735 roundballs attached to a plastic wad.

I slaughtered some 24gram skeet shots for the powder.




And here is the lazy bastard (took a week before it could hold a beercan!)

[longbow]

Looking forward to all these upcoming range results!

I tried round balls over hard card wads with poor success but your felt wads with likely do better. I also tried the screwed on cushion leg and found that they collapsed and did not "reform" evenly once out of the barrel. It didn't work for me anyway. Those look like a better cushion leg than I used though.

I do like those Brennekes!

Oh, and yuck! on the hand photo! I hope you recover quickly.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Longbow

[Chicken Thief]

I went and bought a shot barrel (Improved Cylinder) 28" today.
That will give a fair result not impared of rifling.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Loaded five slugs with a hollow base wad on top of 23 grains Unique. I had to add a crumbled sheet of toilet paper on top of the powder to keep the slug from rattling in the case. The slugs was fired into a clay berm to test for strength. At 30 yards the group was so-so... five inch high, but only two inch wide - clearly some stringing was going on. The slugs held up very well as the picture shows. Notice the small black ring around the skirt; the hollow base seems to seal better.



I then loaded three slugs with solid base wad over 35 grains of Blue Dot. These wads had no counter sink for the screw which no doubt caused this interesting group at 30 yards. Eight holes in three shots! The center group is a nice 2-1/2 x 1" Below you can see the holes from two of the wads and above, the three self tapping screws has produced some nice key holing! I used a big, hard compressed hay bale for backstop, but the wads still had enough energy to penetrate six inches. Now I'll simply have to try loading a few slugs without attaching the wad!



So far all my test have consisted of small samples just to get the hang of things. I'm learning new stuff all the time. But it's good fun!

Blue Dot seems to be a good choice for these heavy slugs. 35 grains gave 1420 fps with an SD of 11 fps. So far, I haven't crony'ed any of the previous loads, but they all printed higher than the Blue Dot load, indicating a somewhat slower speed.

[longbow]

I have had pretty good results with Blue Dot myself.

I also had trouble with screws bending and failing with screwed on wads. Not sure why the slugs would tip but so they do! Also, not sure how the factory Brennekes avoid the problem. I would credit their solid wad columns with a lot of it but you have a very solid wad there so that really shouldn't be the problem.

You might try the hot melt glue attached wad like the route I have gone. So far that is working pretty well for me but with bore size slugs you need to use a paper tube to keep the glue from contacting the bore. I mostly shoot sub bore slugs in shotcups so that solves it.

I will be out with my copper tube skirted slugs tomorrow so hoping to have good range report.

Longbow

[Cap'n Morgan]

I guess the separating was to be expected - the screws barely held on to the slugs. When properly countersunk, the screws hold extremely well. I think the slugs are "waggin' the tail" rapidly during flight and this is what causes the damage to less sturdy wads. The speed of the slug is creating turbulence which is shaking things apart unless wad & slug are securely bonded - especially when approaching the speed of sound. Supersonic speed may actually improve on this situation as a "cavity" is created around and behind the slug, but this is purely speculation on my part.

I have an idea for a cheaper and much more simple solution to the wad material and the wad-separation problem. The plan is still to develop a Brenneke-type slugs that can be produced without any fancy machines and materials, but one thing at the time... Looking forward to the results from you and Chicken Thief.