Horrible Accuracy Problem

[Mike.44]

Took my newly acquired Parker-Hale 3 Band musket to the range for the 1st time today. I was not happy with the results. The gun was thoroughly cleaned by me when I got it. I also did a thorough inspection. The bore is really nice.....so is the crown, nipple etc. Got some deep cavity 500+ Minies that were uniform. They are .575 and when loaded I could just push them partially in the bore by thumb. For the first time out I lubed them with bore butter with just a dab in the base to boot. I was using 65gr Swiss FFFG. They loaded fine and I did a light "uniform" little double tap to make sure they were seated properly. All shooting was done from the bench to check for accuracy and see how the rifle shot. I was shooting a good foot and a half to the left at 50 yds. Groups were about 4". I have done precision rimfire competition and know how to keep shots in 5/16" at 50yds. I also shoot heavy .45/70 loads and a 500 JRH revolver......so I know I am not flinching. The trigger is really nice on the P-H. While I did not expect stellar accuracy the first time out I am concerned about shooting so far to the left. I am aware that different powder, lube and projectile combos must be tried. I want to hunt with this rifle.....am I just asking too much from this firearm?

If not farmiliar this is a 1-78 twist .577 caliber with a 39" barrel

[Whiterabbit]

you are shooting conicals out of a round ball shooter. you've got two choices. Put way more powder in there to stabilize that projectile, or start shooting PRB's. Try 80-100 grains of FFF with a roundball. maybe more to stabilize that conical.

[Mike.44]

Sounds like a plan. Just that I was under the impression Minies would shoot well from this gun.

[carbine]

Pm sent

[Boerrancher]

In all honesty I doubt you will ever get suitable accuracy out of a conical projectile. In most cases a 1 in 48 twist is a bare minimum for a conical, and it had better be a short one. With a bit of work you can often get PRBs to shoot out of a fast twist ML, but it is nearly impossible to go the other direction. I am not saying don't try it. I just want to prepare you for the possibility of failure.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Nobade]

Remember this is a rifled musket being talked about. It is designed to shoot minie' bullets. Being a Parker Hale, it most likely has a well finished barrel on it. This rifle will most likely work properly once the owner learns all its quirks and finds out exactly what to feed it.

Once you come up with a good accurate load you can always make a new leaf for the rear sight to move the group to center. It's not going to take much to do that.

Are you sure those bullets you used were cast from dead soft pure lead? That really makes a difference with minie' bullets. They also need to have nearly perfect skirts on them. And of course varying the load up and down, as well as varying the granulation of the powder will all have an effect on accuracy. Keep at it, you'll eventually find what it likes.

Oh, check the barrel's bedding as well. They need to be bedded properly to shoot to their potential.

[451 Pete]

Mike,

Totally agree with what Nobade posted above. Standard military charge in original rifles was 60 grains with probably what would have been a 1 fg. powder.... using 3 fg in the Swiss which burns hotter I think I would reduce the charge by 10% from the 60 grains. A couple of other things. The minnies need to be as perfect as you can get them. Pure lead and weigh them and shoot in groups of like weights. Make sure there are no imperfections in the skirt. Try lubing the outside of the minnie instead of inside the hollow base. Although a minnie and the design was ment for quick reloading without cleaning between shots as you want to use this for hunting I would wipe and clean between shots as a clean barrel that you will be taking your hunting shot from will shoot to a different point of impact than a dirty one.

Just a few things to try.... Pete

[Hanshi]

Interesting predicament. My US M1841 .54 rifle will shoot a bit better than that with Maxi balls at 50 yards and the twist is 1-66".

[451whitworth]

as already stated i would try a slower powder like 2Fg as the Swiss 3Fg may be more than the skirt on the Minie can handle

[Fly]

Yea those were made to shoot minies.Most likly David from Research Press will post.He reads this form alot &
knows more about those guns than most.Those are fine rifles & I'm looking for one in the future.

Fly

[Fly]

Pete would a wad over the powder work, with the minnie?

Fly

[varsity07840]

you are shooting conicals out of a round ball shooter. you've got two choices. Put way more powder in there to stabilize that projectile, or start shooting PRB's. Try 80-100 grains of FFF with a roundball. maybe more to stabilize that conical.

With all due respect, most rifled muskets including all the Springfields had slow twists. 1/72 being
the norm. They were designed to shoot minies which they do with very good accuracy, IF you follow the rules. Pure soft lead. Minie sized no more than .002 under bore size. 65 gr. of 3F Swiss is a heavy charge and may be the reason accuracy is poor. Try aound 45-50 gr. Windage can be a problem on all muskets since the sight are adjustable for elevation only.


Duane

[Fly]

Well I have a question about slow twist.I know those muskets had a very slow twist.But so does
my Lyman GPR a 1 in 66, 54 cal.Could I not shoot a minnie in it, even thow it is made for a PRB?

Fly

[varsity07840]

Well I have a question about slow twist.I know those muskets had a very slow twist.But so does
my Lyman GPR a 1 in 66, 54 cal.Could I not shoot a minnie in it, even thow it is made for a PRB?

Fly

The GPR has deep grooves for PRBs. Rifled muskets had progressive rifling starting at .015 at the breech progrssing to .005 at the muzzle. Most reproductions today are a consistant .005.

Duane

[Good Cheer]

The old thick skirted Lyman .54 minie is doable in my GPR flinter. Tried out some stout charges but just haven't had the time or want to see what charge was the most accurate. Just wanted to see.

[Good Cheer]

Found a photo on my laptop showing how it loads.

[Fly]

The old thick skirted Lyman .54 minie is doable in my GPR flinter. Tried out some stout charges but just haven't had the time or want to see what charge was the most accurate. Just wanted to see.

Can you still get them or a mold?

Fly

[cwskirmisher]

With all due respect, most rifled muskets including all the Springfields had slow twists. 1/72 being
the norm. They were designed to shoot minies which they do with very good accuracy, IF you follow the rules. Pure soft lead. Minie sized no more than .002 under bore size. 65 gr. of 3F Swiss is a heavy charge and may be the reason accuracy is poor. Try aound 45-50 gr. Windage can be a problem on all muskets since the sight are adjustable for elevation only.
Duane

+1. The PH Musket was specifically designed to shoot the minie ball. Poor accuracy could be attributed to too stout a charge, blowing the skirt, or too hard lead. As varsity07849 stated correctly, a charge of 45-50 of 3F is more appropriate. Or 50-60 of 2F. N-SSA shooters use these in competition all of the time, with excellent accuracy - 4 inch groups (or better) standing off hand at 100 yards.

[10 ga]

I want to hunt with this rifle.....am I just asking too much from this firearm?

If not farmiliar this is a 1-78 twist .577 caliber with a 39" barrel

AH, to the heart of the question. You are not asking too much from that nice rifle musket. Don't worry about getting a minnie to shoot as you arn't doing reenacting and being authentic isn't necessary. Go with the patched roundball! Simple as that. Personally I'd shoot 1&1/2 F Swiss. Get some .565 RBs and pillow ticking patches. Lube of preference (the bore butter is just fine). You know the loading sequence and start testing. I would start with 65 gr. of the 1.5 F Swiss and work up. The biggest problem may be finding .565 RBs. I have a mold that is ".562" and throws COWW roundies just fine. I have a Cabelas "Traditional Hawken" in .58 and with a 48 twist and 28" barrel. It shoots really good with the prb. Your twist is a bit different but the prb should give you plenty of accuracy, minute of deer out to 100 yd. That 280 gr.+- rb is a "smashing" success for deer hunting. Adjusting the sight after you find an accurate load shouldn't be that much of a problem. 10 ga

[Good Cheer]

Can you still get them or a mold?

Fly

Lyman still has them on their website.
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/b...php?entryID=88