may need to modify lube

[brotherdarrell]

I picked up a used/unfired Rem 700 in .223 last week and shot it today for the first time with the MX3-22 from NOE and a Lyman 225438, all sized @ .225" and lubed with Ben's Red which has a little extra BW to stiffen it up a little. I would shoot 5 over the chrony and then set it aside to cool. Of the ten five shot groups eight had first shot fliers of up to 1.5". Also at one point some other shooters showed up an needed to place targets so I shot ten shots in succession and the last four went absolutely wild, as in larger than a paper plate. Most 5 shot groups were at or under 2" @ 100 yds. A few of the MX3-22 groups would have been under an inch except for the one flier that opened the group up to just under 2". All groups were imr-4895 between 18.5 gr. and 21.0 gr. (no fillers). The MX3-22 boolits were lubed on the bottom two grooves only and all grooves on the 225438.

I make no claims to know anything about lubes and would appreciate any and all ideas.

Thanks to all

brotherdarrell

[runfiverun]

try using less lube...
the 22's are finicky about wet lubes and are really picky about weight variations.
as you built up a "wet" bore it has a tendancy to become erratic in it's friction property's.
try shooting over a chrono with less and less lube.

[357maximum]

1.Be critically ruthless in your boolit inspection process.
2. use less lube (lube fewer grooves) as R5R says....
3. Skip the grease/wax lubes entirely and Lighly coat the pre gaschecked/sized boolits with LeeLiquidAlox and give them a light coating of MotorMica....that was actually the best lube I found when I was shooting 3K plus in my 223's with the RCBS 55 grainer. Hard for a lube cook to admit, but it was the best lube I found in THAT ONE caliber at extreme speeds.

[brotherdarrell]

So I need less lube? OK.

This last trip I had just two grooves with lube on the MX3-22, this includes the area above the gas check.

Just for informational purposes the alloy I was shooting was about 15 lbs. of LazerCast 44 boolits that I had melted down due to not shooting well in my 44mag. I has an air-cooled bhn of about 14 according to my Lee tester. The best group was 19 gr. imr-4895 which gave an avg. velocity of 2506 fps. The high was 2647 and the low was 2441. These were loaded w/out a filler due to a late night loading session. I think a filler will only help. The group had 4 under an inch with the first shot (2508 fps) a flier almost 1.5" out.

I don't know if this alloy will shoot or not but I do have to say it makes the most bootiful boolits and cast like a dream. I cast almost 200 boolits with the NOE mold and only had 10 that were more than .4 grains out.

Thanks again

brotherdarrell

ps - where does one purchase motor mica?

[357maximum]

Ballistic products is where I got my big can way back when. I am sure other handloading/reloading suppliers carry it. I was marketed as a shotgun wad slickifier originally. Very useful stuff...works great for dry lubing case mouths without the black mess of graphite too. By the big can...you will never have to buy another one.

[runfiverun]

with 200 fps velocity variation i can see why you aren't having good accuracy.
also weight sort into .1 gr batches.

[brotherdarrell]

with 200 fps velocity variation i can see why you aren't having good accuracy.
also weight sort into .1 gr batches.

True, but if I get rid of the first shot cold bore flier groups were all under 1.5" @ 100 yds. A dacron filler is definitely in the plans for the next go around.

Thanks

brotherdarrell

[leadman]

14BHN may be a little soft for the velocity range you are trying to shoot in. I use Linotype, sort to .1+ or - and lube with Carnuba Red for velocities up to 2,400 fps, above that I use LBT Blue Soft and have shot 1 1/2" groups at over 3,000 fps. 2,700 fps is better at less than 1".
I also use 6 grs of 700X for a small game load and it works real well at around 2,000 to 2,200 fps.
Try heat treating some boolits and see what happens.

[brotherdarrell]

leadman - I have about 250 that are air-cooled and I have however many there are here that are water-dropped


I figure to run the air cooled through the ringer and then try the water-dropped later and see how they compare.

randyrat is also sending my a sample of his TAC#2 to try out. The timing should be good as the Lyman 450 is about to run out of the Ben's Red.

Thanks again to all

brotherdarrell

[runfiverun]

i think you'll like the tougher,dryer lube at the high end.

[brotherdarrell]

Well, I tried less lube today. I also made two other changes. Instead of grabbing a hand full of assorted brass I chose only w-w brass. I also added a small tuft of dacron, less than 1/2 gr. I had two sets of reloads: lubed two grooves and lubed one groove.

A couple of notes:

19 gr. imr 4895 w/o dacron avg. 2506 fps - two grooves lubed
19 gr. imr 4895 w/dacron avg. 2635 fps - two grooves lubed
19 gr. imr 4895 w/dacron avg. 2713 fps - one groove lubed

Change in accuracy? Yes!!! I could not keep half the shots on the target. My first shot landed down about 8" and about 6" to the right. Second shot was not on paper, and it went down hill from there.

I stated in the first post that I had shot a 10 run and that the group really opened up. I checked the chrono numbers and about half were in the 2600+ fps range. Could be leadman was right and this alloy won't handle these speeds/pressures, or the same could be said for the lube. I am open to ideas.

When I cleaned the rifle this afternoon I thought I could feel what might have been some lead in the barrel, but after 8 patches I got no sign of lead and a smooth feeling bore.

I have some water dropped with this alloy and will be getting some TAC#2 soon. Will give this combo a try and see what happens. I don't know how hard the water dropped is but a scratch test tells in the area of woodpecker lip hard.

thanks to all

brotherdarrell

[runfiverun]

you definatly need something there to grab the rifling.
a mix of ww's and soft with tin waterdropped is definatly going in the right direction.
back the load down a grain or so and try the water dropped.

it ain't easy.
you have to get things as close as possible to your rifles measurements and get them started as straight as possible....
get a baseline load that's accurate.
then speed things up incrementally.

it took me most of three years to get my first 223 figured out [i'm a little slow]

[brotherdarrell]

I am pretty sure I am getting them started straight. The boolits are seated out far enough to get good engraving on two of the bands, and it appears to be very even all the way around. Who knows what exactly the alloy is I am using. It was about 15 lbs. of Lazercast 44 boolits. I do know it casts like a dream and drops the same diameter as my 50/50. It also drops about a grain or so lighter and I run the pot a little cooler also.

This is fun.

brotherdarrell