Deer Hunting with a 7.62x39 Norinco Bolt action

[crackerjack57]

Good Day Gentlemen! Im hoping to draw some great input from this post.

I had a post previously running on my SKS which was having accuracy issues. I wanted to make the SKS my Deer rifle. after all that I could do along with all of the input on this forum couldnt get acceptable accuracy, I sold it to someone that just wanted a lead launcher.

I have now purchased a Norinco 7.62x39 bolt repeater along with the 3-9 scope. apprehensive of the Chinese gun i took it to the range. Well, I got to say....... pleasantly surprised!! With the military fmj was getting about 1 1/2" groups. this was at 100 yards. I still had some rounds put together for the sks that I chambered and shot aswell. where the military ammo was dead on, the lee 155 grain pointed cast ammo with 17 gr of 2400 ( wheel weights, water quenched, alum gas checked, pan lube ) was about 2 1/2" above center and a slightly tighter group. Can anyone explain the rise in elevation as i would of expected the lighter military ammo at 125 grains to be higher and the heavier lee cast to be the lower. Oh, i did crony both. the military at 2375 fps and the lee 155 grain cast at 1950 fps.

The bottom line is that I want to create a great 1-3 hunting loads that would do great at anywhere from 80-200 yards on deer and elk. I know that some of you might be thinking that 200 yards on an elk is a little weak using a 7.62x39 but I wont pull the trigger unless I know I have perfect placement.

I have the pointed lee 155 grain molds that are made for the sks. they are sized at .312 with gas checks. the barrel slugged out to .311. how would this pointed bullet do for poking a hole?? would it mushroom?

The next molds I have are for a .308. one is the lee 180 gn round nose and the other a roughly 113 gn flat nose. cant exactly remember the weight but around there. obviously the .308 diameter is too small so I am wanting to paper patch. I have paper patched on my 30-06 with sub MOA at 100 yards and thats not even truly using sandbags at the bench. so I know excellent results can be had with paper patching.

Can all you Wise and experienced Gentlemen give me input on good loads for this rifle? also if possible, I have alliant 2400 and unique at my disposal and if possible would like to consolidate to unique as am also using it for my 9mm.

attached are castings of what I have. left to right. lee roughly 113 gn flat nose (.308), lee 155 gn gas checked standard SKS equivalent (.311), lee 160 gn paper patched micro grove (.311), 160 gn micro grove and I shaved the tip flst with lathe (.311), Lee standard 160 gn micro grove gas checked (.311), and lastly Lee 180 gn round nose (.308)




I appreciate your input and am looking forward to a healthy discussion!!

A CANUCK!!

[Bob Krack]

The lighter bullet leaves the barrel in a shorter length of time. So - if both loads have anyway near the same actual recoil, the lighter bullet is gone before the recoil has reached the maxim amount of movement.

Bob

[x101airborne]

For deer, I say the 7.62 is pleanty. BUT.... I have never shot an elk, but would think it a little light. Just my opinion. I KNOW it is a little light for our large hogs unless extremely well hit and would think an Elk would be a little tougher. The 7.62x39 is my favorite round for hog hunting out of an AR.
I think, and this is worth what you paid for it......
113 grains is too light. Not enough uumph to penetrate through.
Pointy boolits are a no-go. Slow to start to expand and once they do, the nose gets off center and causes the boolit to tumble.
Too heavy boolits, unless cast soft, dont have enough speed to do a lot once they get there AND trajectories can be too difficult to predict unless you use one and only one rifle for a while and get to know it. And I dont mean just at the range making a fancy card to tape to the buttstock of your rifle. I mean KNOW your weapon.

I find for the 7.62x39, after 5 years of using it almost every weekend and several thousand rounds and hundreds of animals killed, a cast boolit of 150 or so grains is optimal. Cast of air cooled half WW's and half pure with tin and copper added to the melt with a small hollow point will work well on anything up to about roughly 200 pounds. Hit reasonable, this will result in a DRT shortly. Bigger than that, I have had hit and miss results. I would definately caution agianst trying Elk with the cartrige.

[crackerjack57]

thanx for your input. Im wondering.... what are your thoughts on my micro grove pointed bullet that I cut the tip off so its now a flat nose? could it be better? also how do you get the hollow point? is this something that you drill in with a lathe as well?

[x101airborne]

I was constantly looking for a better mousetrap. Till I found the NOE 311-155hp. I bought it and after a little learning curve, am having a ball with it. As far as your cut off Lee, I think it is just about as perfect as one could ask for without buying another mold. For hollowpointing, look into the Forster Hollowpointing Jig. It works wonders.

Is that bolt rifle anything like the CZ version? If so, I bet you are going to love it. Interested to see if it has a .308 or a .311 groove diamater. What kind of glass are you looking at? Do yall have laws prohibiting night vision?

[crackerjack57]

This rifle is much like the cz. as soon as I got it, I took it apart! the first thing I noticed is that the trigger group is fully adjustable which surprised me. travel, pull weight and back stop are all adjustable. im not sure but there also might be a 2nd stage for the trigger just before the break. I'm not certain of this though. as for diameter, as above I slugged it. came out to a perfect .311. i will also be trying a .308 pill that will be paper patched. It will be interesting to hear from some of the PP junkies!! as for the night vision....... not sure never tried or asked. I know that any game animal would be no way. I'm not sure about varmints though. we might be ok to shoot those with night vision. I have never seen a night vision scope here though. we dont get all the cool toys here! However we do have concealed carry sling shots!

[Olevern]

The 7.62X39 is good for anything that the 30-30 would be considered good for (they are very close ballistacly) I would not consider it adequate for an animal the size of elk or moose. That being said, if it's all you have and the distances are close, well large animals have been killed with less. In the interest of clean kills and not seeing the animal suffer needlessly I would recommend more gun for the larger animals.

[softpoint]

You can get by with casting that paper patch boolit pretty soft, and you will get expansion.

[Haggway]

I have had good luck with h322 and that little 113 grain paper patched boolit for plinking and small game.
Nothing heavier, I do have the 165 ranch dog mold so it may be close to the noe 155.

[10x]

If you are shooting that Norinco with milsurp ammo that you purchased recently, make sure the first step in cleaning is hot water with a bit of dish soap in it. Most of the milsurp we get in Alberta is corrosive and will pit your bore. Even some of the stuff advertised as non corrosive.
A good scrub with some cleaning solvents will not remove the corrosive salts left by primers.

[429421Cowboy]

I also would worry about hunting elk with a 7.62, especially with cast. Granted as has been said before, plenty of critters have been shot with less, but if i had the choice i would not be hunting elk on purpose with something along the lines of a .30/30. At least where i live and hunt, if i can get a legal elk in range, i consider myself lucky and want to knock it down for the count because i might not get another chance at one. Elk are big and tough, alot of people don't even consider a .270 enough for elk, i would keep the 7.62 for shooting deer sized game with cast.

[taco650]

The 7.62X39 is good for anything that the 30-30 would be considered good for (they are very close ballistacly) I would not consider it adequate for an animal the size of elk or moose. That being said, if it's all you have and the distances are close, well large animals have been killed with less. In the interest of clean kills and not seeing the animal suffer needlessly I would recommend more gun for the larger animals.

I too would hesitate to shoot an elk with the 7.63x39 or 30-30. However, a college buddy of mine told me his father killed many Roosevelt Elk with the 30-30. Shots were close and well placed but that was on the WA coast where its really brushy and ranges are short.

[MT Chambers]

IMHO the 30/30 has much more punch then the 7.62x39, as it shoots a 170 gr. bullet the same speed as the other shoots a 123 gr. bullet. Our deer here are large bodied and I would not take that gun out after them. Most folks have more capable rifles that they could use, so i see no need to be undergunned here. Th object is not to take a big game animal with the least powerful cartridge possible, but to take one with a rifle that has least chance of wounding, presuming proper shot placement.

[x101airborne]

Yeah, I knew a guy who claimed to kill a bunch of elk with head shots from a 6mm remington.
And I know the guy to not be a story teller and I saw at least 10 of the elk shoulder mounted.
Not me! No way, No how. I have a nice shooting 30-06 for that.

But I have killed a truckload of hogs and deer with the 7.62x39. But all were under a hundred yards or so. A least under 200 for sure (distances can play tricks on you at night). And they weren't usually over 200 pounds in weight. Our deer are small, usually about 140 pounds live weight.

That bolt action will be one of the finest general use rifles you can have. I look forward to hearing how you do on the range with it. If you need some sample boolits, let me know. I have a mold or two......

[MT Chambers]

Our deer are large bodied and shots are usually 200 yds or so and those chinese guns don't have the accuracy or the power to drop these deer. With the way they group, you're looking at wounded animals, and i believe we owe it to the animals to put them down cleanly! I don't think this should be condoned as many are just starting out hunting and recommending such poor choices does no one any good.
Originally 30/30s were common here for deer hunting, but as more land was cleared and shots could be further, the 30/30 fell out of favor and has not had the resurrection that it has had elsewhere.

[429421Cowboy]

[QUOTE=x101airborne;2047916]Yeah, I knew a guy who claimed to kill a bunch of elk with head shots from a 6mm remington.

Yep, every year i hear somebody tell me about using a .243 on elk, about the same difference, and it does work but just cuz it works doesn't mean its always a good idea! But one good shot will kill any critter, its the margin for error that makes a big gun nice!

[crackerjack57]

well gentlemen.... we are getting some good input here. Thanx!! I do have a 30/06 that I can use for the larger animals if I want to and I know that I do get incredible results with it. especially with the reloaded cast. In fact when with a starter load can get a sub MOA at 100 yards and not even be using a sandbag absolutely floored me. later this year I will be working more with that rifle but for now want to firstly work out a load for this new toy. Even if I kept it for my 100 yard deer gun is fine for me. what kind of loads, cast bullit shapes, powder and alloy are some of you using? Also I am very interested in what some of you are doing with the paper patching.

[leadman]

I've shot probably 15 or more elk. I do carry a 30-30 Contender carbine in the junipers but would not shoot much past 75 yards, and would prefer 25 yards. I've shot at least 3 elk with the 30-06 and a 150gr jacketed bullet and only the broadside shot thru the ribs exited. The other shots were somwhat of an angle and penetrated at least 20". My Encore in 7mm Rem Mag with 150gr bullets under the same conditions, or close, always exits and leaves at big hole.
I do know a guy that killed a cow elk with an SKS and factory ammo but he also used quite a few shots to do it.
I have some factory 7.62X39 150gr softpoints and the velocity is only just over 2,000 fps. My Contender in 30-30 shoots a 176gr cast boolit abut 175 fps faster than that.

[Dan Cash]

..........Also I am very interested in what some of you are doing with the paper patching.

I started paper patching trying to salvage an undersized custom mould for my .30-40. By golly, it is not as quick as shooting grease groove bullets naked but it sure does work and the velocity is on par or a bit better than factory jacketed. Might work with a 150 grainer in your 7.62x39 bolt gun and have you in .30-30 territory. You have gotten some very sound advice regarding what the caliber is suitable for. With the 123 grain bullets is is not capable for much in my not so humble opinion. The cartridge was not designed as a killer but a 150-200 yard incapacitator. It will do that.

[RoyEllis]

You're gonna find that X 39 isn't up to being a reliable elk killer beyond 100yds if that.....it just can't put enough steam behind a heavy enuf boolit for the job. A 308 or '06 will do it but there's not much slack below them, you really need more powder capacity. JMHO though.....