Should I expect a difference in Primer Brands?

[mikeyd23]

I usually use CCI small rifle primers for reloading .223. With the recent nonsense I was running low on primers and all I could get was Federal brand. I will now have to work up a load I am sure but should I expect a big difference from using the Fed primers instead of the CCI?

[felix]

Yes, you SHOULD expect a large difference, but you will be delightfully surprised to find that in most non-target applications there will be no difference in actuality. ... felix

[LUBEDUDE]

I kept hearing a lot of talk over the past few years that Federal and CCI are owned by the same parent company and speculation that they may be now made at the same plant? Whether the specs are the same I have no idea as well.

Does anyone have any factual information on these two points?

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

They are owned by the same company. ATK.

Your speculation would be the same as mine when it comes to .22 rimfire.

Are the CCI Blazers still what we have come to know and love or they made at the Federal plant?

Will be having an engineer from ATK - Speer, CCI - Lewiston, speak to a men's breakfast at my church on the 23rd, but not sure if that kind of information will be addressed.

You can check them out on the net. ATK owns a bunch of companies, Speer, CCI, Federal, RCBS etc. etc..

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[ReloaderFred]

Both CCI/Speer and Federal still make their own primers. Neither of them has the production capacity to make them both, and they can't keep up with demand as it is. Federal primers are still the "softest" of the domestic primers, and CCI are still the "hardest".

They also use slightly different priming compounds in their primers, too.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[dragon813gt]

You will see no difference. If you were shooting 1000 yards you could potentially see a difference. But there are to many other things that you can adjust before primers that will make a bigger difference.

[mikeyd23]

Thanks I am still gonna work up the load the same as CCI and compare before I mix and match for this 1k. Got a few thousand CCI today so hopefully I only need to deal with 1k of the federals

[XWrench3]

i can see and measure a difference between Winchester and CCI large rifle primers. but so far, those are the only two i have HAD to substitute for one another because of the panic buying. i usually start looking for another 1k of primers when i open the 7th tray. so i usually can find the normal brand before i run out. the only other substitution i have tried was substituting regular large rifle primers for magnum primers (both CCI). in my 300 win mag there was a very noticeable difference. in roughly 80% of the loads i tried doing that, i experienced lag fires. long enough to be very noticeable and move the point of impact significantly, even in warm weather. i will never use standard primers in that round again, unless there is no choice.

[MtGun44]

There IS a difference, but in many applications it is very small.

HOWEVER, the .223, when loaded to full military velocities is a VERY hot load and
substitution of any component could potentially result in "interesting" results. Having
gotten well past the point where getting "interesting" results was desired in my handloading
career, I'd suggest that you do what the powder manuals say - back down about 10-15%
and work the load up again with the new components.

Bill

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Good info Bill!

CDOC

[LUBEDUDE]

Thanks for the info Gentleman.

[mikeyd23]

There IS a difference, but in many applications it is very small.

HOWEVER, the .223, when loaded to full military velocities is a VERY hot load and
substitution of any component could potentially result in "interesting" results. Having
gotten well past the point where getting "interesting" results was desired in my handloading
career, I'd suggest that you do what the powder manuals say - back down about 10-15%
and work the load up again with the new components.

Bill

That was the plan...thanks Bill

[ROGER4314]

The component manufacturers swear that substitution of components can cause dangerous pressure variations but in over 4 decades of reloading, I've never seen conclusive results that proved that to me. If I saw flattened or cratered primers, alarm bells would be going off but I've never personally seen proof.

I don't swap components but in the tricky market we have today and with all the supply issues, there may come a time when that is necessary.

Backing down a charge after switching components is a good idea but it depends upon which loading manual that you choose to use. I have a library of manuals and can tell you that they disagree a LOT! The Lyman 49 manual is the most conservative and I wouldn't have any problems with using their data and tinkering with components. Other manuals like the Lee, run closer to the maximum edge and I'd tread lightly there.

Flash

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

The very fact that the reloading manuals vary, in some cases by a considerable amount, just goes to prove the huge potential for varation of pressures in a given firearm with a selected group of components.

So, while it is great that our manufactures maintain the consistancy and quality control that they do, there are varations.

Example, I have seen a drop in velocity of close to a hundred feet per second with just a change from one powder lot to another. It just as easily could have been an increase with the increased pressure that went with it.

I have seen velocities to dream about in a popular manual, while the personal velocities didn't come even close to. Talking a number of hundreds of feet per second here.

WOW, I'd sure like to have an 8lb. jug of their powder lot number.

So while I mostly agree with "Flash's" posting just above, a few test shots, even with our hard to get component issues brought about by the obamanation, would be really cheap insurance.

For, if your chamber and/or bore happened to be one of those on the tight side of manufacturing tolerences, and your powder lot also happens to be on the hot - higher pressure - side, a primer just could make a difference.

Testing with your firearm and components is the only way to really know.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[DrCaveman]

I used CCI exclusively when I started loading, and they always went bang in my 45 and 30-06.

Then I bought a late '70s smith model 19-3 (357 mag) and began loading, using CCI small pistol primers. I got about 3 failures every 50 rounds. Primer was dented, but no bang.

After some reading up, I discovered that Federals were softer (as mentioned above). Switched to Fed for all 38 spl loads, and at the time, all 357 loads. Every shot went bang.

Jump to now, I have a ruger gp100 that chews up every primer. So now I load all my 357 with CCI again, and only shoot them through the ruger. Still use Fed with all 38 spl, and that is what the smith shoots. 100% success in firing. No noticeable difference in performance after boolit leaves its case, as far as I can tell. All powder loads/OAL settings have equaled out, after my initial 10% reduction and subsequent work-up.

So, there's a tangible difference. Maybe a non-issue with 223, as I would bet any mil-spec gun has a pretty strong hammer strike. I think maybe the trigger was lightened on the smith 357 at some point, but it's so freaking sweet I don't dare change anything.

[Case Stuffer]

My Speer Number 8 reloading manual clearly states one page 29:
Use Magnum primers
In any cartridge in very cold weather
When using ball or sperical powder
when using slow burning in .30/06 and larger.


Page 352 they list CCI 500 primer used for the 9MM loades. 500 is a Standard not Magnum.

I started reloaing in 1966 and was very heavy into reloading for competation IPSC,PPC ,Steel plates,Bowling pins for myself and others in the late 70's and early 80's. My findings have been as others noted Federals are the softest and great for revolvers and semi autos with light hammers I also like using them for pressure checking while working up a load. Small rifle primers work great in most all unaltered semi autos. Magnum primers are indeed hotter and if loading to above midrange loads reduce 10% and work up.

Added: Don't forget to check pressures for the ammo type being loaded. A 9MM operates at much higher pressure levels than a 45ACP and when reading loads listed by others remember that some shot 9MM in comp. guns with custom barrels that are even hotter than factory +P+ rounds.