large rifle primers or pistol primers

[Silvyus]

I have some large rifle primers and wanted to know if anyone can tell me the differance between them and large pistol primers. I am looking to load for my 44 mag. contender and if I can use the primers I have it would be nice.

[Ricochet]

Large rifle primers are slightly taller than large pistol primers, and may not seat flush in pistol cases.

[Blammer]

I'd try one and see, I have had no height problems with mine.

[wonderwolf]

I've heard they are harder.....Sitting around talking to a old school shooter during a pistol combat match he told me about the time he loaded up 1000 rounds of such and such load and used large rifle primers on accident and they would light strike the 1st time and go off the 2nd time...So he took a few rubber bands and wrapped them around the hammer to give it a little more umph...said it worked really well and the loads were still safe

[slughammer]

I seated several Federal large rifle primers in pistol brass and they sat way too high, no way were they going to work.

I solved the problem by buying a rifle that takes large rifle primers.

[44man]

Be aware that even if they seat deep enough by crushing the anvil into the pellet, they will raise pressures dramatically. Rifle primers are .010" higher too.

[Whitespider]

Larger rifle primers are taller than large pistol. Chances are they’ll seat above flush with the case head, this is dangerous.

The cup is also made from thicker material to withstand the higher pressures generated in rifle cartridges. Most pistols and revolvers won’t strike the cup of a rifle primer with enough force to give consistent ignition, accuracy will surely suffer.

Rifle primers have a considerably higher brisance, more than is required for most handgun powder charges. This can have a dramatic effect on pressure and even change the relative burn rate of the powder.

I recommend you buy large pistol primers. I also recommend you buy a rifle for your rifle primers.

[Marlin Junky]

I have some large rifle primers and wanted to know if anyone can tell me the differance between them and large pistol primers. I am looking to load for my 44 mag. contender and if I can use the primers I have it would be nice.

This tool:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...053&t=11082005

will deepen your primer pockets so you can use Large Rifle primers in your .44M brass. I don't know if you'll significantly weaken the case heads by removing enough brass to seat LR primers but it would be interesting to find out if this is worth while, in case we have another primer shortage.

MJ

[BluesBear]

Listen to Whitespider's advice.

However if you don't mind a few thousand extra PSI in your loads then go ahead and experiment.

After all it's your fingers and eyes.
Just don't expect any sympathy from me when you lose one or more of either.

[mto7464]

Primers are cheap, just use the correct ones and give the rifle primer to a friend.

[Silvyus]

I already gave the rifle primers to a friend who could use them properly thanks everyone for the advice

[AZ-Stew]

Now, go buy a reloading manual and READ the sections that teach you how to handload. You'll find all you need to know about primers, brass powder and bullets and how they relate to each other in your handloads.

Then come back and ask all the questions you want about bullet casting. We'll be happy to help. That's what this forum is for.

Regards,

Stew

[Silvyus]

correct me if I'm wrong but Stew that was more then a little rude

Regards,

Silvyus

[BluesBear]

Well it did seem perhaps a little brusque, but I wouldn't really classify it as rude.

And it is good, sound advice none-the-less.

When discussing safety it's often necessary to be a little stern.
Sometimes the written word can appear to be mean-spirited when that was not the intent.

Every reloading book worth its salt has a section on primers.
And anyone who advocates a dangerous reloading practice is foolish.
There are already enough websites out there full of misinformation and stupidity.
With all of the negative attention focused on the shooting sports nowadays we certainly don't need to appear reckless.


I've been reading forums for over five years now and I can say with certainty that this is one of the most informed, intelligent and helpful forums you will ever find.
The signal to noise ratio here is exceptionally high.

[BruceB]

Back in the '60s, Ruger's new tube-fed semi-auto .44 Magnum carbine was becoming popular in Canada.

There was NO MARKET in Canada for handgun ammunition, and thus when Canadian Industries Limited (C-I-L) decided to make .44 Mag ammunition, it was strictly intended as a carbine load.

It was a 240-grain jacketed softpoint, not a hollowpoint. Now, the point of this post is this:

C-I-L used their #8 & 1/2 RIFLE primer in this .44 ammo, exactly the same primer they used in .303, .30-06, .270 and a host of other cartridges.

I have never owned a .44 rifle or carbine , and I used this ammunition in both my Ruger single-actions AND an unmodified S&W Model 29. No problems arose of any kind, even in double-action shooting with the Smith, where the lighter hammer-fall might be expected to give ignition troubles.

I then reloaded that C-I-L brass with C-I-L, Winchester and CCI PISTOL primers, again with no problems, no seated-too-deep primers, no misfiring. I have also, on occasion when circumstances dictated, used rifle primers in other makes of .44 brass, again without any performance penalties at all, either in chronographed consistency or in functional reliability.

Say what you will, I've done this and it worked well. The original poster has solved his "problem", but there really wasn't much of a problem to begin with.

[BluesBear]

CIL/Dominion had long been loading .44-40 ammunition. Back in the 1970s I had a lot of it in both the yellow boxes with blue band and the yellow boxes with the blue oval. Some were marked "For Rifle Use Only".
I even had some CIL .44-40 Shot cartridges that used an extended case.
When reloading the cases, CCI 300 Large Pistol primers fit them perfectly. When attempting to duplicate the old Remington Hi-Speed loading I found that CCI #200 Large Rifle primers would not seat flush in CIL cases. Even the Rifle Only cases would only work with pistol primers. So it would seem that CIL were making Large Pistol primers. Why didn't they use them in their .44 Magnum?
Perhaps the powder they were using needed a hotter primer?
It doesn't really matter.

You can bet that CIL pressure tested their ammunition. So it really doesn't matter what primer CIL used. They probably weren't using any powder you could buy anyway. The bottom line is that CIL had the ability to pressure test their ammo in order to keep it safely within established .44 Magnum specifications.

So until a reputable source decides to publish loading data for the .44 magnum using rifle primers, in cases designed to accept Large Rifle primers, it's still a dangerous, foolish, reckless practice.


A while back, Handloader magazine published a test of rifle primers. Using the exact same components except for primers they experienced over a 10,000 psi difference. That can be the difference between bang and kaboom!

Now I realize they did it with a large capacity rifle case, but it could be even more hazardous in a smaller high pressure case such as the .44 Magnum. For instance, we all know that projectile seating depth (PSD) can drastically change pressures. There is just a smaller margin of error in smaller cartridges.



Now there are many people on this forum that I respect and I'd feel proud to meet.
[flame suit=on]
But I'm really glad I don't shoot on the same range with some of you.


.

[AZ-Stew]

Silvyus,

My point is that the main purpose of this forum is not to discuss absolute rock bottom basic reloading techniques. From your post it's apparent that you are not familiar with the basics, and like many new handloaders, you expect to get all your information by asking questions in internet forums. I'm guessing that you only use load data that's available for free on the 'net, also.

There's nothing wrong with asking questions, and most here will tell you that I'm more than willing to help. There's also nothing wrong with "free" anything, as long as the product is genuine. In the case of handloading data, that means you should be getting your info from the powder and bullet manufacturer's web sites and follow it to the letter as a recipe, not a suggestion, until you know exactly what you're doing.

This is a forum for a specialized segment of handloading: Casting, loading and shooting bullets you make yourself by pouring molten lead alloys into iron, aluminum and brass moulds. This is generally NOT the place to learn the very basic rudiments of the handloading craft. This you should be learning from an authoritative source, either an NRA Certified Handloading Instructor, or by reading the "education" section of one (preferably several) of the commercially available handloading manuals. These are published by the bullet, powder and in the case of Lyman, handloading equipment manufacturers.

My writing style is sometimes terse and short on diplomacy, but I wanted to get your attention. We're all here to learn from and support each other's bullet casting habit. When you've studied several handloading manuals you'll begin to understand why we do some of the things we do here. I'm trying to show you the shortest path to success. Study everything you can get your hands on related to handloading, try to replicate in your handloads what you've studied, shoot them, study the results (observe EVERYTHING), compare what you see to what you studied at the beginning. Repeat. Repeat again and again. That's how the most knowledgable posters here got to where they are. Those who try to start at the middle of the learning curve, instead of at the beginning, suffer more failures (leading, poor accuracy, and dozens of other irritations) and damaged equipment. Those who started at the bottom and worked their way up still shoot the same firearms they started with 30 - 50 years ago. They're just better shots with them now.

Your choice.

Regards,

Stew

P.S. Welcome aboard.

[Marlin Junky]

Back in the '60s, Ruger's new tube-fed semi-auto .44 Magnum carbine was becoming popular in Canada.

There was NO MARKET in Canada for handgun ammunition, and thus when Canadian Industries Limited (C-I-L) decided to make .44 Mag ammunition, it was strictly intended as a carbine load.

It was a 240-grain jacketed softpoint, not a hollowpoint. Now, the point of this post is this:

C-I-L used their #8 & 1/2 RIFLE primer in this .44 ammo, exactly the same primer they used in .303, .30-06, .270 and a host of other cartridges.

I have never owned a .44 rifle or carbine , and I used this ammunition in both my Ruger single-actions AND an unmodified S&W Model 29. No problems arose of any kind, even in double-action shooting with the Smith, where the lighter hammer-fall might be expected to give ignition troubles.

I then reloaded that C-I-L brass with C-I-L, Winchester and CCI PISTOL primers, again with no problems, no seated-too-deep primers, no misfiring. I have also, on occasion when circumstances dictated, used rifle primers in other makes of .44 brass, again without any performance penalties at all, either in chronographed consistency or in functional reliability.

Say what you will, I've done this and it worked well. The original poster has solved his "problem", but there really wasn't much of a problem to begin with.

Bruce,

If one reams .44Mag primer pockets to accommodate Fed 210's do you suppose that'll remove enough brass to weaken the case webs significantly. I own over 25K Fed 210's and a bunch of virgin .44M Starline brass and was thinking about buying my wife a Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum. Using nothing but Fed 210's would simplify my handloading. Naturally, being a cautious, responsible, experienced handloader, I would work up from reduced loads when using the Fed 210's. Also, I've never had a Fed 210 misfire in a Marlin lever action which is not true for WLR primers. When I did a little research on primer attributes, I found that Federal uses a little different compound that is easier to light than the compound used in other primers. This kinda deviates from the point but it leads me to believe that I probably would not have ignition problems in a Marlin 1894 chanbered in .44 Magnum if I were to use Fed 210's SAFELY!

MJ

[44man]

When I first started loading .44's back in 1956, I didn't have good dies and did not get the case tension needed so I depended more on crimp. Of course I had to learn the hard way about tension when I started silhouette. I had special bench dies made and came up with all kinds of things. I started with LP mag primers like the books said and accuracy left a lot to be desired. The primer pressure was enough to drive the bullet from the case before the powder got started. SD's and ES's were all over the place. Even when I figured out how to keep the tension tight and even, mag primers still gave poor accuracy. I use nothing but standard LP in the .44 and .45 Colt now. If I want to triple group size all I need are some mag primers.
I can't imagine using LR primers in that small a case, you don't even need powder to drive a boolit deep into the barrel or maybe all the way through it. Where does a boolit wind up before a good burn is attained? I don't like the idea of a boolit leaving the case, stopping and getting slammed with the powder pressure. Even working loads to account for the extra pressure isn't going to keep a boolit in the brass.
Then if a primer stands a little proud and recoil slams it against the recoil plate, it can go off. No thanks, LR primers will never go in my guns!

[Silvyus]

Well all I didn't meen to start a heated debate here I gess I need to admit I was just being a little lazy I have been loading hand gun loads for years 9mm and 44 mostly and have 5 different loading manuals down stairs I should have just done some reading. It is easy to see the members here have much much more diverse exsperiance with reloading then I have and I was taking advantage of the resource. When you get down to it there are lots of things the books can and can't teach you and by sharing on a forum like this we all end up better shooters (hopefully). I have never been one to exsperiment with my loads I always stay well within the guide line of my reloading bibles

So lets put this to rest and may I say thanks to all that have given there assistance

THANKS Silvyus