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Thread: can you make priming compound?

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    Untested by me Ron Brown 'Homemade Guns and Homemade Ammo'


    Chem %weight by volume
    Potassium chlorate 52.73%--- 3
    Sulfur 27.27%--- 2
    Grit 20% --- 1.5

    Add 1% baking soda to this mix.
    The % by weight is close. Depends of what the grit is.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master ofitg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perotter View Post
    FA-42

    Potassium chlorate 47.20%
    Antimony Sulfide 30.83%
    Sulfur 21.97%

    This is primer that was used in the 30/06 until sometime during WW1. It works very well. The "in basement" test for dampness was over at 18 months, but that was because I had used all of that batch up. You might want to add 1% baking soda.
    I found this same formula in Hatcher's Notebook, he identifies it as "FH-42". I may have to try this one.

    In case anybody has trouble obtaining Antimony Sulfide, it might be helpful to know that it occurs naturally as a mineral called "stibnite".

  3. #43
    Boolit Master Desertbuck's Avatar
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    I found a place that has all the chemicals that is needed. And at a real good price!
    http://www.hobbychemicalsupply.com/servlet/StoreFront

    Potassium Chlorate (KClO3)
    Price: $6.50 bl

    Antimony Trisulphide (Sb2 S3) Chinese Needle
    Price: $18.00bl

    Sulfur powder (S)
    Price: $4.50bl
    THE GUN
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    The gun has been implemented for good.
    The gun has been abused for evil.
    With the gun comes a great moral responsibility!
    To better understand the gun is to better under stand History. And with the gun protect your future.
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  4. #44
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    I wonder if the feds will take interest in someone ordering what amounts to be the ingredients for making explosives? Is it even legal for them for the feds to watch us? Am I being paranoid? You bet!!!

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    I wonder if the feds will take interest in someone ordering what amounts to be the ingredients for making explosives? Is it even legal for them for the feds to watch us? Am I being paranoid? You bet!!!
    There are a few "pyro" magazines out there, more of a black and white plain paper deal than a slick magazine, I subscribed to one for a year or so. They do talk about a lot of the chemicals involved and what ones raise suspicions. The oxidizers if bought in qty can raise suspicions, and combinations of things bought from the same company. You might innocently buy some aluminum powder to mix into acraglass, and some visco fuse for your black powder cannon from the same company, and arouse suspicions.

    At one time I heard copper sulfate was on some list as a precursor for Meth, they sell the stuff in paper sacks at the farm store to put in ponds.

    Bill
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by perotter View Post
    Tested Ron Brown's modified. This is more of hot spark primer. Should be a good all around.

    Dry. Small pistol cup. Filled cup & pack(this is called 1/2 cup). Filled cup again & packed(this is called 3/4 cup). 1/2 cup did work each time. The amount of mix for 1/2 was 0.3 grains. The 3/4 did work each time. The amount of mix for 3/4 was 0.5 grains. When fired in the pistol, the flame from the end of the pistol was about the same as CCI small pistol.

    Chem %weight by volume
    Potassium chlorate 46.6% 3
    Sulfur 19.41% 2
    Grit* 33.98% 1.5

    Add 1% baking soda to this mix.

    * The grit I used was 4030 sandblasting sand. Just measured it out. I think this is to a little course. I also, think one could use less of it.

    1. Measure out 2 volumes of sulfur and put it on a sheet of paper. Crush out any lumps.
    2. Measure out 1 1/2 volumes of fine sand. Add this to the sulfur.
    3. Pour the above back & forth between 2 sheets of paper 10 to 20 times.
    4. Beside this pile of mix, measure out 3 volumes of potassium chlorate. Crush out any lumps.
    5. Combine it all together.
    6. Pour it back & forth between 2 sheets of paper until your very bored. 20 to 30 times for me.
    7. Reload primers.
    This is getting really interesting and the info you have been providing is greatly appreciated but steps 6 and 7 have me a bit confused, "Pour it back & forth between 2 sheets of paper 20 to 30 times", then the next step is "Reload primers". What puzzles me is step 6 is obviously talking about a loose powder (or do I misunderstand) so does this mean the primers are reloaded with a loose powder? Does this mix form a kind of paste?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    This is getting really interesting and the info you have been providing is greatly appreciated but steps 6 and 7 have me a bit confused, "Pour it back & forth between 2 sheets of paper 20 to 30 times", then the next step is "Reload primers". What puzzles me is step 6 is obviously talking about a loose powder (or do I misunderstand) so does this mean the primers are reloaded with a loose powder? Does this mix form a kind of paste?
    This is for using the mix dry. Fill the cup level full and then press the mix down with a rod(I use steel) that is just a little smaller than the ID of the cup. This will leave you with a cup that is 1/2 full, allowing room for the anvil.

    I drilled holes in a steel plate to hold the cups. A total of 25 holes. One for large primers and one for small.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by perotter View Post
    This is for using the mix dry. Fill the cup level full and then press the mix down with a rod(I use steel) that is just a little smaller than the ID of the cup. This will leave you with a cup that is 1/2 full, allowing room for the anvil.

    I drilled holes in a steel plate to hold the cups. A total of 25 holes. One for large primers and one for small.
    Did you use a paper disk over the powder before seating the anvil ? I would think a dry powder would be likely to crumble if you carried the rounds around in your pocket, or in the gun, or the car glove box ?

    You can buy stainless screens that work nice for powders, you just gently work the powder through the screen with a camel hair brush, it then falls onto your paper. There is also a blending agent called "cab-o-sil" that you can add to powders to make them mix nicer, I think it is chemically inert ?? I would keep batches very very small, and set off whatever batch size you propose in a safe manner remotely just to see what your up against if it were to go off while you were working it. A fireworks place in MI just south of the line blew up one year, killed two people, turned the building into an empty slab, then a month later another building same place, killed 1-2 more people.

    KCLO3 (potassium chlorate) is sort of nasty stuff, bites even people who should know how to work with it safely now and then.

    Bill
    Last edited by Willbird; 02-06-2013 at 01:36 PM.
    Both ends WHAT a player

  9. #49
    Boolit Master Desertbuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    Did you use a paper disk over the powder before seating the anvil ? I would think a dry powder would be likely to crumble if you carried the rounds around in your pocket, or in the gun, or the car glove box ?

    You can buy stainless screens that work nice for powders, you just gently work the powder through the screen with a camel hair brush, it then falls onto your paper. There is also a blending agent called "cab-o-sil" that you can add to powders to make them mix nicer, I think it is chemically inert ?? I would keep batches very very small, and set off whatever batch size you propose in a safe manner remotely just to see what your up against if it were to go off while you were working it. A fireworks place in MI just south of the line blew up one year, killed two people, turned the building into an empty slab, then a month later another building same place, killed 1-2 more people.

    KCLO3 (potassium chlorate) is sort of nasty stuff, bites even people who should know how to work with it safely now and then.

    Bill

    I don't know about the SS screen I would feel much safer with just paper and a plastic spoon to mix. And I would use my pestle and mortar to turn the chemicals into a powder individually before I mix them. Also dust with a screen would also be a concern for me.
    THE GUN
    The gun has been praised.
    The gun has been denounced.
    The gun has played a critical role in History.
    The gun has been implemented for good.
    The gun has been abused for evil.
    With the gun comes a great moral responsibility!
    To better understand the gun is to better under stand History. And with the gun protect your future.
    D.B

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertbuck View Post
    I don't know about the SS screen I would feel much safer with just paper and a plastic spoon to mix. And I would use my pestle and mortar to turn the chemicals into a powder individually before I mix them. Also dust with a screen would also be a concern for me.
    I read of it somewhere in an article about making flash powder, it does work very nicely, a friend made me some frames about 2" tall with the screen on top, there is no dust the material just falls down on the paper. Any powders I have used were already ground, but sometimes lumps form in storage. The camel hair brush is very gentle.

    Just for me I'm not putting KCLO3 in a mortar and pestle .

    But to each his own .

    Bill
    Both ends WHAT a player

  11. #51
    Boolit Master Desertbuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    I read of it somewhere in an article about making flash powder, it does work very nicely, a friend made me some frames about 2" tall with the screen on top, there is no dust the material just falls down on the paper. Any powders I have used were already ground, but sometimes lumps form in storage. The camel hair brush is very gentle.

    Just for me I'm not putting KCLO3 in a mortar and pestle .

    But to each his own .

    Bill

    OW!
    I understand it's dangerous mixed with anything that will burn. But Potassium chlorate even by it self is shock sensitive and can exploded???? I'm going to have a look at an MSDS one more time


    OK I found this MSDS for anyone that is new to this including myself, as to what the risks are with Potassium chlorate


    ection 1 Identification
    Health: 2
    Flammability 0
    Reactivity 3
    Hazard Rating:
    Least Slight Moderate High Extreme
    0 1 2 3 4
    NA = Not Applicable NE = Not Established
    Product Name: Potassium Chlorate Reagent, A.C.S., Crystal
    Trade/Chemical Synonyms
    Formula: KClO“
    RTECS: FO0350000
    C.A.S CAS# 3811-04-9
    Section 2 Component Mixture
    Sara 313 Component CAS Number % Dim Exposure Limits:
    Potassium Chlorate CAS# 3811-04-9 100% W/W TXDS: unk-hmn LDLo:429mg/Kg,orl-rat LD•:1870mg/Kg

    Section 3 Hazard Identification (Also see section 11)
    Heat, shock, friction, or contact with other materials may cause fire or explosion. Harmful if swallowed. Avoid breathing vapor or dust. Use adequate ventilation. Avoid contact with eyes, skin or clothes. Wash thoroughly after handling. Keep closed.

    Section 4 First Aid Measures
    Heat, shock, friction, or contact with other materials may cause fire or explosion. Harmful if swallowed. Avoid breathing vapor or dust. Use adequate ventilation. Avoid contact with eyes, skin or clothes. Wash thoroughly after handling. Keep closed.

    FIRST AID: SKIN: Remove contaminated clothing. Wash exposed area with soap and water. If symptoms persist, seek medical attention

    EYES: Wash eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes, lifting lids occasionally. Seek Medical Aid. INHALATION: Remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen

    INGESTION: If swallowed, induce vomiting immediately after giving two glasses of water. Never give anything by mouth to an unconcious person.
    Section 5 Fire Fighting Measures
    Fire Extinguisher Type: Water Only
    Fire/Explosion Hazards: Strong oxidizer. Contact with combustible materials may cause a fire.
    Fire Fighting Procedure: Wear self-contained breathing apparatus and protective clothing to prevent contact with skin and clothing.

    Section 6 Accidental Release Measures
    Evacuate area. Wear self-contained breathing apparatus and protective clothing. Eliminate all sources of ignition.

    Section 7 Handling and Storage
    Store in a cool dry well ventilated area. Keep away from heat and flame. Do not get in eyes, on skin, or on clothing.

    Section 8 Exposure Controls & Personal Protection
    Respiratory Protection:None required
    Ventilation: Mechanical: Hand Protection: Gloves to prevent exposure
    Local Exhaust: Eye Protection: Dust resistant goggles/face shield
    Other Protective Equipment: Wear appropriate clothing to prevent skin exposure

    Section 9 Physical and Chemical Properties
    Melting Point: 368 C Specific Gravity 2.32
    Boiling Point: 400 C Percent Volatile by Volume: N/A
    Vapor Pressure: N/A Evaporation Rate: N/A
    Vapor Density: N/A Evaporation Standard:
    Solubility in Water: 7.1% Auto ignition Temperature: Not applicable
    Appearance and Odor: colorless, odorless, lustrous crystals Lower Flamm. Limit in Air: Not applicable
    Flash Point: N/A Upper Flamm. Limit in Air: Not applicable

    Section 10 Stability and Reactivity Information
    Stability: Stable Conditions to Avoid: Avoid contact with incompatible materials.
    Materials to Avoid:
    metals, organic compounds, acids.
    Hazardous Decomposition Products:
    Fumes of chlorine, oxides of potassium
    Hazardous Polymerization:Will Not Occur
    Condition to Avoid:None known

    Section 11 Additional Information
    Effects of overexposure. Acute and chronic:May cause irritation of eyes, skin. May damage respiratory and gastrointestinal tracts if ingested or inhaled. Ingestion may also cause nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain. Conditions aggravated/target organs: NonePersons with pre-existing eye, skin or respiratory conditions may be more susceptible.
    DOT Classification: Potassium Chlorate, 5.1, UN1485, PG II
    DOT regulations may change from time to time. Please consult the most recent version of the relevant regulations.
    Revision No:0 Date Entered: 9/1/2006 Approved by: WPF
    Last edited by Desertbuck; 02-06-2013 at 03:13 PM.
    THE GUN
    The gun has been praised.
    The gun has been denounced.
    The gun has played a critical role in History.
    The gun has been implemented for good.
    The gun has been abused for evil.
    With the gun comes a great moral responsibility!
    To better understand the gun is to better under stand History. And with the gun protect your future.
    D.B

  12. #52
    Boolit Master ofitg's Avatar
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    Quoting from the book, Chemistry of Powder & Explosives -

    "For mechanical reasons, the ingredients of primer composition ought not to be pulverized too finely."

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    Did you use a paper disk over the powder before seating the anvil ? I would think a dry powder would be likely to crumble if you carried the rounds around in your pocket, or in the gun, or the car glove box ?


    KCLO3 (potassium chlorate) is sort of nasty stuff, bites even people who should know how to work with it safely now and then.

    Bill
    I didn't use a paper disk over any when dry loading. Paper is used for wet loading only so that no compound stays on the punch when it presses the compound into the cup. Spray the primers after the anvil is put in with hair spray, etc. If wet loading of course wait until it has dried. I mostly just test various compounds and don't often spray them.

    Another tip for safety is to wash everything(tools, table, bread board, etc) with water when done for the day.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertbuck View Post
    I don't know about the SS screen I would feel much safer with just paper and a plastic spoon to mix. And I would use my pestle and mortar to turn the chemicals into a powder individually before I mix them. Also dust with a screen would also be a concern for me.
    If you buy PC from a pyro house, you can get it powdered fine enough for direct use. There maybe a few lumps to break up. If you have to grind some up, I was shown and told to use only wooden tools. A bread board and rolling pin/large dowel.

    It is good that you are doing your research before jumping in. IMO, no point in reinventing the wheel.

  15. #55
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    FWIW, normally for test batches I start with a 10 grain total weight batch. That is enough for 20 large rifle primers and , IMO, enough to get a feel for what is going on. After I make a new untested(by me) mix, I put about the amount that is in a toy cap on a steel plate and hit it with hammer.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desertbuck View Post
    OW!
    I understand it's dangerous mixed with anything that will burn. But Potassium chlorate even by it self is shock sensitive and can exploded???? I'm going to have a look at an MSDS one more time


    OK I found this MSDS for anyone that is new to this including myself, as to what the risks are with Potassium chlorate

    Unless I kept tools especially for it I would be concerned about something that would react with it being present. There was a HUGE explosion somewhere or other that involved KCL04 that got contaminated with a fuel ?? A ship at a dock somewhere blew up, long time ago, not finding it via google.
    Both ends WHAT a player

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    Unless I kept tools especially for it I would be concerned about something that would react with it being present. There was a HUGE explosion somewhere or other that involved KCL04 that got contaminated with a fuel ?? A ship at a dock somewhere blew up, long time ago, not finding it via google.

    I think you are probably talking about the 1947 incident in Texas City Texas but that was Ammonium Nitrate (fertilizer that is also used extensively as a blasting agent).

    I think there was a fire on a ship docked there that was loaded with tons of Ammonium Nitrate, diesel fuel or Kerosene and what was described as a shipment of small arms ammunition, all in all just about the "Perfect Storm" situation for a disastrous explosion when the fire broke out. As if that was not bad enough a lot of people from the city had come down to the docks to watch the ship burn when the explosion occurred resulting in nearly 600 fatalities!
    Last edited by oldred; 02-07-2013 at 12:55 AM.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    I think you are probably talking about the 1947 incident in Texas City Texas but that was Ammonium Nitrate (fertilizer that is also used extensively as a blasting agent).

    I think there was a fire on a ship docked there that was loaded with tons of Ammonium Nitrate, diesel fuel or Kerosene and what was described as a shipment of small arms ammunition, all in all just about the "Perfect Storm" situation for a disastrous explosion when the fire broke out. As if that was not bad enough a lot of people from the city had come down to the docks to watch the ship burn when the explosion occurred resulting in nearly 600 fatalities!
    I think you are probably right, I had in my head that it was an oxidizer not a fuel....which was true....but it was not kclo4. I knew a guy who worked at the Andersons in Maumee, OH..they used 1/4 stick of dynamite at times to break up AN that had hardened into a solid.

    Bill
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  19. #59
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    Ammonium Nitrate mixed with diesel fuel (commonly called ANFO when used for blasting) was and still is the most used explosive in mining. The mines where I worked loaded ANFO by the ton(s) from slurry trucks into drill holes in the area to be blasted, this was primed with a type of dynamite that was then detonated by the usual caps. I have many times seen literally whole mountain tops blasted apart in one huge "shot" that consisted of tons of ANFO and there are probably others here that have worked around surface mines that have seen the same thing. Timothy McVeigh used Ammonium Nitrate mixed with a gasoline/Nitro Methane mix for that horrendous terrorist attack.

  20. #60
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    Priming

    Hi Guys
    I have something that my apply to this topic.
    It's a small book called The Ultimate Do-It- Yourself Primer Cookbook. I just checked, Amazon has some for around $20. There is one formula that is interesting using citric acid ,hydrogen peroxide and Hexamine(Heat tablets like sterno). Personally I have rebuilt berdan primers using the toy cap method. They do work but, are dangerous to seat(they will go off if seated too deep). Many hangfires with this.
    n.h.schmidt

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check