can you make priming compound?

[perotter]

@All,

See this link for a copy of a training course I did for making homemade primers:

http://aardvarkreloading.com/resourc...e%20Update.pdf

While it does not cover all the work I have done, it covers all the basics of the various ways primers can be reloaded. I'll expand the section on lead free non-corrosive primer formulations after I have done some experiments.

Share this document with anyone you think might be interested. We need a knowledgeable army of folks who would not be affected by a government crackdown on ammunition and reloading components. The more we know, the less likely it will affect us, and ultimately the less likely it would be that the government would try it. This is my end goal, to share knowledge now so we can give would be tyrants the finger in the future.

Enjoy!
Marshall

Thanks for generously writing this manual, providing it online and asking us to share it. I've downloaded it and will be sharing it with others.

[TheCelt]

@All,

See this link for a copy of a training course I did for making homemade primers:

http://aardvarkreloading.com/resourc...e%20Update.pdf

While it does not cover all the work I have done, it covers all the basics of the various ways primers can be reloaded. I'll expand the section on lead free non-corrosive primer formulations after I have done some experiments.

Share this document with anyone you think might be interested. We need a knowledgeable army of folks who would not be affected by a government crackdown on ammunition and reloading components. The more we know, the less likely it will affect us, and ultimately the less likely it would be that the government would try it. This is my end goal, to share knowledge now so we can give would be tyrants the finger in the future.

Enjoy!
Marshall

Fascinating read!!!! Thank you for sharing!!!

[Tracy]

If one wants to just getter done this is how I'd say to do it.

If you are ok with using a corrosive primer, than just make the mix that the US military used back in the WW1 era. They spent a lot of money and time coming up with it and it works very well. And the chemicals are easily obtainable, cheap and is simple to do. No special equipment and it is faster and cheaper to reload with than using toy caps or cutting the heads off of strike anywhere matches. The cost would be about $0.60 per 1000 primers.

If you must have a non-corrosive primer, you have a few choices. But the simplest path to get a 100% result without doing a bunch of experimentation, is to make your own Red Phosphorus. It is pre-1600's tech making it and stone-age tech will work. Then buy barium nitrate and antimony sulfide to make the compound. Urine was first used to make it. Latter it was made from bones. The US military is currently working on replacing the current lead based primer mixes with a RP one. And in the past have used it.

If you don't want to make RP, than go the hypophosite route. Use Berdan primers, a booster charge or a duplex primer. It's simple, safe(relative to the topic) and currently you can just buy what you need.

After that, IMO, one moves from the "just getter done" into the more experimental world or you start spending a lot of time, money, work with very poisonous chemicals, etc. I somewhat like the experimentation and research that goes into the use of other things, but one should decide what their goal is before starting.

Stay safe. If in doubt, don't do it.

fify.

[Texantothecore]

Thanks for starting this new phase in the project. I have been wondering if there was an Ely process using more available components.

Thanks,
Mike

[Traffer]

Marshall, It is good to see more posts by you. I wish I had your knowledge and intelligence. It is exciting for me to see your work. Thanks for posting this stuff. I just wanted to inform you (and everyone else) that I have been experiencing a good amount of cracked cases. I have been careful to load all the same so it is not due over loading. It is due to the cartridges becoming brittle. So I have started to anneal them. I have just annealed and wet tumbled a batch that I haven't finished loading yet. But so far they are even much easier to work with being softer. They size like a dream. Will let you know how they act when fired. I also got my hands on some Eley Primed cases. It sure speeds things up when you don't have to deal with unprimed, dirty, used cases. I have also been experimenting with powder coating the little devils. I am hoping to eventually get very nice Powder Coated bullets. I have had success swaging some semi-wadcutters and powder coating them. But have to retool for regular round nose bullets to be able to use them in the feed mechanisms of magazine fed guns.

[perotter]

Thanks Marshall. Nothing beats having a professional to get things done.

I think this one is a great addition for the reasons you gave. Of all the one you have given us, this is the one I'm going to roll with.

[Traffer]

I don't know if this will be of interest to you but here are some pics of the primer in Eley primed 22lr cased that I got hold of from the early 80's. These cases were packaged in food seal plastic and the primer still works great.
Attachment 176482Attachment 176483Attachment 176484

[Traffer]

Range Report on EPP9 primers

Although my test firings of EPP9 primers in an empty 9mm casing have been successful, the ultimate test of a new primer formulation is in ammunition. Therefore, I made up 2 sets of 9mm test rounds, 10 using SP boxer primers in brass cases, and 10 using 5mm berdan primers in steel cases. These were compared against reference rounds made with Sellier and Bellot SP primers in brass cases. The loading of all rounds was:

115 gr FMJ / 4.4 gr Bullseye / 1.150 OAL
26647 psi / 1154 fps / 340 ft-lb / 97.8% burn / 80.8% fill

The test results were very good with 100% firing of all test rounds. In addition, based on perceived recoil and bullet placement on the target the test rounds performed exactly like the reference rounds.

In conclusion, SP boxer and 5mm berdan primers made with EPP9 compound perform equivalent to commercial primers in 9mm rounds.

That is great work. Thanks for proving that this is not impossible.

[Traffer]

I just read this for the first time. Sometimes I amaze myself by what I miss when reading stuff. Here I am trying to glean all this information from posts and books that I don't understand and you have presented it in an extremely well composed tutorial. This is exactly what I have been trying to find for the last 8 months. Thanks for your fine work Marshall.

@All,

See this link for a copy of a training course I did for making homemade primers:

http://aardvarkreloading.com/resourc...e%20Update.pdf

While it does not cover all the work I have done, it covers all the basics of the various ways primers can be reloaded. I'll expand the section on lead free non-corrosive primer formulations after I have done some experiments.

Share this document with anyone you think might be interested. We need a knowledgeable army of folks who would not be affected by a government crackdown on ammunition and reloading components. The more we know, the less likely it will affect us, and ultimately the less likely it would be that the government would try it. This is my end goal, to share knowledge now so we can give would be tyrants the finger in the future.

Enjoy!
Marshall

[EDG]

If you want to safely make a priming mix you might think about the handling processes and the equipment design that will keep you safe.
I used to work for the largest semi-conductor capital equipment manufacturer on the planet.
It was founded by a chemical engineer who wanted to supply chemicals to the semiconductor manufacturers which was an emerging industry at the time. A couple of his chemicals were silane and arsine. Both are pyphoric and burn on contact with the air. His potential customers were very impressed by the design of his lab equipment which was designed to handle these materials safely. Instead of buying his chemicals they wanted to buy his equipment so they too could safely handle these guaranteed to kill you materials.

Safety can include lock out tag out. Fail safe valves. Redundant controls and back up systems.

The designs included a cabinet (box) built around the stick of gas mixing valves. If any of the 6 to 12
gas lines and valves had a leak the cabinet exhaust system would transport the gas out of the factory.

All transformer cabinets had locked access doors. Inside were clear lexan safety shields locking out the ordinary employees. Only qualified service electricians could open the clear shields. During the design of this equipment one of the last things done was to check the fit of the shields for "Darwin Holes". A Darwin Hole was any gap in the shields that would permit an employee to reach the energized circuits with a screw driver.

Helium though inert can suffocate you in an enclosed space so you have to be careful with it. The factory's helium purge gas is used to flush the atmosphere and remaining process gases out of a chamber before starting the next process. The helium keeps the inside of the chamber dry and clean.
An example of how you can screw up was one of our designs that had many gas line junctions in a common area. One of our set up employees crossed 2 sets of lines.
The helium line was supposed to be connected to a normally closed valve. Instead it was connected to the chamber which was connected to the factory exhaust system.
The employee went home and $500,000 of helium was vented to the atmosphere over the week end. This shut down the factory until a new supply of helium was delivered.
My employer paid the cost of the helium and the shut down.
In this case the design engineering group was held responsible. The gas lines were redesigned so none of the connections could be crossed up.

[Traffer]

While the processes involved are very different, it is good to have ample warning about dangers. I have read many of the stories on the internet of accidents involving Armstrong mix. Indeed I have had it send me to the hospital. Armstrong mix was the common primer of the past. It was even manufactures on a large scale. A manufacturer in London had an accident in which stone blocks over a ton were thrown hundreds of yards and many people were killed. Many people have been killed or maimed by it through the years. When I work with it now, I never work with it unless it is wet. And then only in batches of less than 5 grains. The last time I used it I had about a third of a grain ignite on me...EVEN THOUGH IT WAS WET. Certainly that much did not harm me but startled me where my pulse definitely went up a lot. So thanks for the further warning. Can never be too safe handling dangerous material.

If you want to safely make a priming mix you might think about the handling processes and the equipment design that will keep you safe.
I used to work for the largest semi-conductor capital equipment manufacturer on the planet.
It was founded by a chemical engineer who wanted to supply chemicals to the semiconductor manufacturers which was an emerging industry at the time. A couple of his chemicals were silane and arsine. Both are pyphoric and burn on contact with the air. His potential customers were very impressed by the design of his lab equipment which was designed to handle these materials safely. Instead of buying his chemicals they wanted to buy his equipment so they too could safely handle these guaranteed to kill you materials.

Safety can include lock out tag out. Fail safe valves. Redundant controls and back up systems.

The designs included a cabinet (box) built around the stick of gas mixing valves. If any of the 6 to 12
gas lines and valves had a leak the cabinet exhaust system would transport the gas out of the factory.

All transformer cabinets had locked access doors. Inside were clear lexan safety shields locking out the ordinary employees. Only qualified service electricians could open the clear shields. During the design of this equipment one of the last things done was to check the fit of the shields for "Darwin Holes". A Darwin Hole was any gap in the shields that would permit an employee to reach the energized circuits with a screw driver.

Helium though inert can suffocate you in an enclosed space so you have to be careful with it. The factory's helium purge gas is used to flush the atmosphere and remaining process gases out of a chamber before starting the next process. The helium keeps the inside of the chamber dry and clean.
An example of how you can screw up was one of our designs that had many gas line junctions in a common area. One of our set up employees crossed 2 sets of lines.
The helium line was supposed to be connected to a normally closed valve. Instead it was connected to the chamber which was connected to the factory exhaust system.
The employee went home and $500,000 of helium was vented to the atmosphere over the week end. This shut down the factory until a new supply of helium was delivered.
My employer paid the cost of the helium and the shut down.
In this case the design engineering group was held responsible. The gas lines were redesigned so none of the connections could be crossed up.

[Traffer]

@Traffer,

Can you provide a reference of Armstrong mixture ever being used as a primer? In all my reading and research on primers, I have never come across any reference to this mixture being used in this way. It is possible that this mixture might have been used as a primer in cap form since they are made from Armstrong mixture. So, I guess the use of roll caps in some pre-percussion cap muzzle loaders, or in homemade percussion caps from aluminum cans, or in primers reloaded with toy caps, or to reprime fired 22 LR cases could be considered to be primed with Armstrong's mixture. However, I think as a general rule, Armstrong mixture is way too sensitive and unpredictable for normal use in standard ammunition primers to the point of being very dangerous. It looks like your experience with this mixture bears that out. I would like to warn folks considering Armstrong mixture for reloading primers to be aware of the extreme danger of making and handling this material. Before trying this idea, you would be well served to do a lot of upfront research. Plus, you still end up with a corrosive primer. So, they would have no advantage over H-48 mixture which has an excellent balance of sensitivity and stability when used in ammunition primers. Be safe folks!

Marshall

As I was not a chemist when starting to use this material, I was not aware of it's historical uses. I started using it after reading that it was being used as a primer in 22lr by the Sharpshooter company that produces a kit for reloading 22lr.
At that time I researched it in the internet and found a good deal of reference to it concerning it's potential hazards. I also had first hand experience with the danger of it as I had a mishap as a child making fireworks.
I checked again on the internet when writing my last post, a couple of days ago. I was rather amazed and disappointed to find that the information appears to be gone. I couldn't find any of the references to accidents with Armstrong mix in the past. Indeed even the word Armstrong Mix seems to have been purged from the normal search channels. Eventually I gave up looking. Why would Google or the powers of the internet purge Armstrong Mix? I don't like this development.
As far as citing instances of it being used as primer, I only know of the recent use of it that is documented on the internet. It was a surprise to me to hear you say that it was not used in the past. I wonder what they were using it for back then. There certainly were factorys producing it in volume. I am not a chemist. I am not advancing a new chemical or compound for a new use. I am one of many people who has learned that Armstrong Mix (in the form of toy roll caps) can be used for the explosive in primers. Indeed I would not even be using it now if I hadn't bought so much of it when first starting. I am anxious to move away form it to go to one of the fine non-corrosive primers that you have graciously shared with us.
We all appreciate you work and are grateful that you share it with us. Until reading this post, I had no idea the it was not used as primer in the past. Now that I can no longer find much reference to it on the internet, I cant even research the history and historical uses of it. If it is too dangerous/sensitive to be using as primer I certainly would like to know. I am sure that everyone else would also. I think that if the govt got wind of this they would take it off the market. Don't know if I care for that solution though.

[perotter]

From what I've read the Dreyse rifle used a red phosphorous/potassium chlorate primer mix. I'll have to dig out a few books I have stored away to see which one or one's have that information in.

If one has or can get red phosphorous, it would be better to use a nitrate like barium/lead nitrate instead of potassium chlorate for the primer mix.

[M.A.D]

With 25 year experience as a explosives technician... All i can say is, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.
But if you wish to make an attempt at a Darwin award... Then The History of Powder and Explosives By Dr Tenny L Davis is your safest bet.. Look forward to reading about you in the Obituary..

[Duckdog]

I can assume your referring to the Armstrong mix? I use the H48 mix and consider it very stable when handled properly.

[Traffer]

At this point I think that I will just do my work and not post anything. If anyone wants to know what I am doing, PM
me. I have nothing significant to share anyway.

[Duckdog]

Have you messed with the H48 primer mix, Traffer? It is a good mix and is a very reliable mix. I tried the roll cap method and it took a month of Sundays to get enough to do anything. Not the case with H48.

[Traffer]

I explained how I strip a roll of caps at a time in another thread. A roll of caps takes about 3 or 4 minutes. That is enough for 12 to 18 22lr primes.

[ofitg]

FWIW, I recently purchased one of those "Prime-All" kits, just so I could examine it closely. The kit contains four ingredients, packaged in four separate plastic bags -



L2 - 378 grains of white powder (potassium chlorate?)
L - 292 grains of gray/black powder (antimony sulfide?)
S - 172 grains of yellow powder (sulfur?)
S - 78 grains of tan granules

The kit's instructions refer to a "hardening agent" soluble in acetone, ethanol or isopropanol, which requires a 24-hour drying time. It appears that those tan granules are the "hardening agent". The granules are approximately half as dense as the crushed sand I have been using for grit, and I determined that they are (for the most part) soluble in acetone or alcohol. I'm guessing that the tan granules are dried shellac.

Since the kit contains no ground glass, it might be closer to the old FH-42 recipe.

[Traffer]

So folks, It is OK to use caps for priming as long as you do it in a tedious laborious manner that is outlined about 8 times on castboolits. But don't dare use caps if you can do it in an efficient way. That make sense.