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Thread: can you make priming compound?

  1. #181
    Boolit Master Bert2368's Avatar
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    An effective rimfire mix can be made by gently removing and crushing the tips of "strike anywhere" matches, then adding a little hot water to make a slurry thin enough so that you can drip a bit into the bottom of the case, then spin the case on an appropriate sized dowel or drill rod to centrifuge the priming slurry out into the rim.

    Both the settlers and Indians knew how to do this 100+ years ago... Lots of rimfire cases found on archaelogical digs in the West have 2, 3 or more firing pin marks on them. Even given that some of the early rimfire guns had double firing pins to increase reliability with the somewhat crude priming technology of the times, we KNOW they frequently reloaded these cases.
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

  2. #182
    Boolit Master

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    While looking for something else I ran across an old rimfire primer compound that one could make with much fuss:

    "At this time a typical .22" caliber rimfire primer composition was the United States Cartridge Company's "NRA" which was:
    Potassium chlorate 41.43%
    Antimony sulfide 9.53%
    Copper thiocyanate 4.70%
    Ground glass 44.23%"

    http://www.bevfitchett.com/chemical-...positions.html

    It has more glass than I thought it would. There are things in the link that might be of interest besides that mix.

  3. #183
    Boolit Mold
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    Would pumice work in place of sand? just wonderin

  4. #184
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert2368 View Post
    An effective rimfire mix can be made by gently removing and crushing the tips of "strike anywhere" matches, then adding a little hot water to make a slurry thin enough so that you can drip a bit into the bottom of the case, then spin the case on an appropriate sized dowel or drill rod to centrifuge the priming slurry out into the rim.

    Both the settlers and Indians knew how to do this 100+ years ago... Lots of rimfire cases found on archaelogical digs in the West have 2, 3 or more firing pin marks on them. Even given that some of the early rimfire guns had double firing pins to increase reliability with the somewhat crude priming technology of the times, we KNOW they frequently reloaded these cases.
    The strike anywhere match tips do real well but they are getting hard to find and are corrosive.

  5. #185
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastus View Post
    Would pumice work in place of sand? just wonderin
    Sand or ground glass works pretty interchangeably. pumice would be abrasive as well but would be a lot lighter, I think, so I doubt it would work as well. Besides I can get sand really cheap and broken glass for nothing.

  6. #186
    Boolit Bub
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    I use Strike Anywhere Matches. Carefully scrape the end cap off, use a mortar and pestle to powder it fine. Mix with a dab of denatured alcohol to a medium paste consistency. Carefully pry out the inner cover of the used primer, use a nail flattened on the end to tap the cup flat on an anvil. Pack with paste, re-insert primer component and load as usual.

  7. #187
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    DesertBuck,

    Try Murdoch's I just got 3 boxes there last month. You'll probably have to go to the store. The box says diamond Strike Anywhere Matches 250 count. There are no part numbers on the box but Jarden Home brands www.diamondbrands.com is.

    They are truly strike anywhere. You can even pop (strike) them with your thumb nail, just like my Grandpa did 50 year ago. I keep them in my hunting pack and they will strike on most anything, as long as it is dry and rough.

    Hope this helps.
    Steve,

    Life Member NRA
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  8. #188
    Boolit Master

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    For a simple(?) non-corrosive mix.

    I've known for some years that the French non-corrosive mix was based on lead azide instead of the German method and chems we use. It look me a few years to find the details of what they did. When I did read it I found they still used tetracene like all other NC primers. That was disappointing as it still wasn't a single primary based mix. But, a few days latter I got to thinking about using just tetracene. While looking into that I found that the French had a new patent that did use just tetracene. Over that last few months I've gotten the chems need to make it. I didn't start with the easiest method, but the one that would ensure availability of the chems. I hope to test primers based on this patent in the next few months.

    The patent is US 8,052,813.

  9. #189
    Boolit Master Bert2368's Avatar
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    Looking at the litterature, azide is susceptible to degradation from CO2 and water vapor. Lead styphnate is not- Does anything degrade tetracene? What kind of storage life would be expected from such mixes?

    The new "green" mixes based on DDNP are not going to store quite as well as the styphnate mixes either, from what I gather.
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

  10. #190
    Boolit Master Bert2368's Avatar
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    Well, guanidine sulfate is dead easy from ingredients at Home Depot- See this link, it's the first step.

    http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/v...d.php?tid=8911
    Last edited by Bert2368; 03-19-2014 at 04:15 PM.
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

  11. #191
    Boolit Master

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    Thanks for the link on making guanidine sulfate. I have a few method that I've gotten from that sight on how to make basic chemicals needed. I'll have to look into this one more.

    I have to agree with Marshall that a tetracene based compound would have as long of life as a lead styphnate one. Largely because a lead styphnate compound won't work very well without tetracene. One of the reasons I'm interested in the tetracene mix is because I can't find any practical DIY mixes that don't use a percentage of tetracene. I figure if one has to make it anyway, using it as the only primary makes for less work.

  12. #192
    Boolit Master AlaskanGuy's Avatar
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    I sure like this thread....

  13. #193
    Boolit Master
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    We need to exercise a lot of caution in what we admit to buying and making here. I suggest making all statements in purely hypothetical terms. No one wants an early morning visit from the jackboots.

  14. #194
    Boolit Master Bert2368's Avatar
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    FYI: BATFE "Orange Book" (Federal Explosives Laws & Regulations):

    http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...f-p-5400-7.pdf

    Because ignorance isn't an excuse-

    I have never been treated poorly by an employee of BATFE. But I have the appropriate licenses for my work, and follow the applicable laws.

    Assuming one doesn't commit an act of terrorism or other federal offense and is not found to be improperly storeing , selling, transporting or giving away any explosives, your problems are not likely to be with BATFE. However! State and local laws and attitudes are all over the map on this, you'd best know your local situation in that regard. Angering your neighbors is something you shouldn't do

    While we should allways remember that communications on the Internet are every bit as private and difficult to connect to yourself as if, say, you were screaming them at the top of your lungs standing naked on main street- Short of obtaining large quantities of the more highly watched chemicals, buying obvious immediate precursor sets to make those forbidden chemicals, doing something to anger the neighbors or otherwise attract local law enforcement's attention- there just isn't enough time in the fed's day to bother with mere internet chatter. If you DO go and "wave your **** in their faces": Yes, you should expect to see your online history read to the jury by a DA. So don't.

    As far as "ending up on a list"- There are now so many lists, so little discrimination on what triggers being entered on same, and so many types of surveillance on ALL communications... We are all on lists.
    Last edited by Bert2368; 03-21-2014 at 08:09 PM.
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

  15. #195
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oreo View Post
    We need to exercise a lot of caution in what we admit to buying and making here. I suggest making all statements in purely hypothetical terms. No one wants an early morning visit from the jackboots.
    We have been down this road a couple of times on this forum. I've posted the Federal laws on this site and it isn't illegal to make, have or use the - chemicals and final products for making ammunition primers or the the propellant for ammunition for ones own use. No Federal license is needed. But when I talk(verbally) about this topic in public and someone seems upset I do say that I have all the needed licenses to do this. A true statement because none are needed when dealing with these things in small quantities and use.

    Also, when I do have a question about any legal issue about a chemical that is used for making primer compounds or propellants I call whatever Federal agency that is applicable about it to clear any concerns.

  16. #196
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert2368 View Post
    ....

    As far as "ending up on a list"- There are now so many lists, so little discrimination on what triggers being entered on same, and so many types of surveillance on ALL communications... We are all on lists.
    A couple of chemicals that are used for making primer compounds that I would both Google search about and look for on Ebay slowly(month or 6 weeks) quit showing up in the searches. To point that with Google I would almost think it didn't even exist as a chemical. One day I used public computer to do a Google search. There was no shortage of hits. Same with Ebay. Draw your own conclusion.

    Also, I my case, companies that would sell me certain chemicals wouldn't any longer. Some just said they wouldn't sell to me and others stated very high prices. One that I'd bought from that had charged $100 for 500 grams wanted $8,000 for 500 grams. They said there was no problem selling to me for that price. I very truthfully said that as I needed it to finish up testing before filing for a patent, I'd pay that much. They then said that they wouldn't sell it to me. Again, draw your own conclusion.

    I'm not trying to scare anyone nor making any claims here that the government/corporations are making effort to deny people freedom, etc. I'm just stating what I've experienced.


    FWIW. Listening to certain Irish music on the Inet will get you on a list.

  17. #197
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
    ...
    I also checked into directly buying the guanidine sulfate. This chemical is on the expensive side. There were several folks selling guanidine hydrochloride for a better price ($28 for 100 gm), but I am not sure if that chemical could be substituted for the sulfate. I am guessing it would make the primer mixture corrosive since NaCl instead of Na2SO4 would be the likely by-product from reacting the guanidine salt with NaNO2. This assumes you are generating the tetracene in situ as described in the French patent.

    Marshall
    Is it guanidine sulfate or aminoguanidine sulfate that you are finding? I haven't yet found a method to convert guanidine sulfate to aminoguanidine sulfate. Do you know of one?

  18. #198
    Boolit Master

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    I really should have given a warning about French patents and what they call chemicals. Even when it is in English they, for some reason, use different names than the rest of the world.

    That was the reason I could never find their patents for non-corrosive lead azide primers. They call it lead nitride. A year or so ago I seen in an old German paper they had something like this: lead azide(lead nitride). I then was able to find some French primer patents that called it lead nitride in them. That lead to the patent of the current topic.

    I think that the French just like to march to a different drum beat.

  19. #199
    Boolit Master

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    I agree with you Marshall. Any patent(French or otherwise), IMO, is more a "What is possible" and it is a "Here is how to do it". Plus sometimes(usually?) a bit of exaggeration as to the benefits. I'm looking at this patent with the view that tetracene will work by as the only primary and about how much to use in combination with other chemicals. I'll also, at least at first, be looking at doing it by mixing the primer compound outside of the cup and not making the tetracene in the cup.

    FWIW. The French powder company is the only one's I know of that still actively working on using ammonium nitrate as a propellant for ammunition. Or at least finding thing that can be patented.

  20. #200
    Boolit Bub
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    Excellent thread, lured me from lurking. I've seen a reference to iron sulfide as a substitute for antimony sulfide in chlorate priming mixtures, but can't remember where, anybody ever run across it?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check