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Thread: can you make priming compound?

  1. #421
    Boolit Buddy Desertbuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by low8option View Post
    Hello all. Just joined your group but have been lurking in the background for a while. I was originally directed to this thread back in 2013 when the question was first asked and we were having trouble finding primers. Luckily I found a source for primer and this thread was forgotten. Then about six months ago I was playing around making .22 sensitive tannerite which morphed into an unsuccessful attempt to make it pistol sensitive and I remembered this thread so I looked it up to see what insight I could gather that I could use. Must say I am impressed by the work that has been done and the willingness to share information. Tonight I reread the entire thread and saw a couple things I am going to try as I was motivated to try making some primers just for the experience.
    Yes welcome to the thread. Though primers are easy to get now I still like to repack them now and then. It's fun and can be addicting as much as all the reloading experience. Remember it's as safe as you make it. Have fun and take care.
    DB
    THE GUN
    The gun has been praised.
    The gun has been denounced.
    The gun has played a critical role in History.
    The gun has been implemented for good.
    The gun has been abused for evil.
    With the gun comes a great moral responsibility!
    To better understand the gun is to better under stand History. And with the gun protect your future.
    D.B

  2. #422
    Boolit Master
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    GONRA reminds ya'll to NOT USE TOO MUCH Aluminum pigment in primer mixes.
    HUGE surface area/unit mass can thermally SQUELCH tetracene initial deflagration heat
    in the usual "lead styphnate/tetracene" type primers.
    Primer "Just Fizzes" for a second or so and lead styphnate never gets ignited.

  3. #423
    Boolit Mold
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    Marshall,
    It looks like here I have problems getting PbO2 component for EPH 10 (centerfire formula) mix. Will the mix work without PbO2? I want to reload SP primers.

  4. #424
    Boolit Master
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    GONRA primers (experiments, not mass production) are based on mixing dry ingredients
    (small plastic vial in a Harbor Freight tumbler, back yard, 100 ft. extension cord)
    loading dry under (typically) 3,000 PSI in brand new CCI small or large pistol primer cups
    in a CH Swag-O-Matic press modified to a dead weight apparatus
    using a paper “foil” salvaged from our Family Paper Punch.

    Doesn’t get more scientifically sophisticated than that!
    Sometimes seal with a shellac / ethanol sealant.
    Then stick in a salvaged anvil, load completed dry primer into a cartridge case
    and testfire in a handy pistol.

    Anyway, most of the mixes over the decades have been
    “pseudo initiating energetic substance” / tetracene (also called tetrazine etc.) types
    with the usual oxidizers, fuels, etc. one finds in our commercial Sinoxid primers.
    No liquids, no binders, no “frictionators”.
    Just “high spot” tests – no laborious fancy statistics….

    So, here’s random observations from all sorts of blurps and screwups over the decades:

    Generally use 5% (as opposed to 3%, 4%) tetracene in all my mixes striving for reliability.

    Few % aluminum pigment (tremendous surface area/unit mass)
    makes a nice incandescent ball deflagration exiting the pistol barrel.

    Noticed that increasing aluminum pigment concentration
    eventually makes a primer that just “hisses” for a second or two, no deflagration.

    This heat conduction issue/observation leads to a proposed
    “two stage Sinoxid primer” ignition model:

    Firing pin wacks the cup, quickly “adiabatically” (heat stays in the “compressed air”,
    doesn’t conduct out through surrounding solids) compressing (like a Diesel Engine)
    tiny bits of “air” in the mix.
    So “air” heats up hot enough to light off any tetracene in the area.
    Tetracene component of the mix “burns first” throughout the pellet
    lighting off the Lead Styphnate component
    then all hell breaks out with everything else participating.

    Anyway, if the tetracene deflagration heat is soaked up by the
    “tremendous surface area/unit mass aluminum pigment component”
    one can either INCREASE the tetracene concentration
    or DECREASE the aluminum pigment concentration to get a Real Live Pop.

    Not a very good answer to the question, but its consistent with my
    Weighty Observations Over The Decades…

    Yawn.
    Last edited by GONRA; 04-09-2017 at 09:54 AM.

  5. #425
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    @Gonra
    What if you used larger granules of aluminum? I have been reloading 22rf with aluminum filings sifted through a 70 grit screen and they seem to still be burning when exiting the barrel of a 22 rifle. I would think that there would be a happy medium for dialing in the burn rate by the size of the granules.
    Quote Originally Posted by GONRA View Post
    GONRA primers (experiments, not mass production) are based on mixing dry ingredients
    (small plastic vial in a Harbor Freight tumbler, back yard, 100 ft. extension cord)
    loading dry under (typically) 3,000 PSI in brand new CCI small or large pistol primer cups
    in a CH Swag-O-Matic press modified to a dead weight apparatus
    using a paper “foil” salvaged from our Family Paper Punch.

    Doesn’t get more scientifically sophisticated than that!
    Sometimes seal with a shellac / ethanol sealant.
    Then stick in a salvaged anvil, load completed dry primer into a cartridge case
    and testfire in a handy pistol

    Anyway, most of the mixes over the decades have been
    “pseudo initiating energetic substance” / tetracene (also called tetrazine etc.) types
    with the usual oxidizers, fuels, etc. one finds in our commercial Sinoxid primers.
    No liquids, no binders, no “frictionators”.
    Just “high spot” tests – no laborious fancy statistics….

    So, here’s random observations from all sorts of blurps and screwups over the decades:

    Generally use 5% (as opposed to 3%, 4%) tetracene in all my mixes striving for reliability.

    Few % aluminum pigment (tremendous surface area/unit mass)
    makes a nice incandescent ball deflagration exiting the pistol barrel.

    Noticed that increasing aluminum pigment concentration
    eventually makes a primer that just “hisses” for a second or two, no deflagration.

    This heat conduction issue/observation leads to a proposed
    “two stage Sinoxid primer” ignition model:

    Firing pin wacks the cup, quickly “adiabatically” (heat stays in the “compressed air”,
    doesn’t conduct out through surrounding solids) compressing (like a Diesel Engine)
    tiny bits of “air” in the mix.
    So “air” heats up hot enough to light off any tetracene in the area.
    Tetracene component of the mix “burns first” throughout the pellet
    lighting off the Lead Styphnate component
    then all hell breaks out with everything else participating.

    Anyway, if the tetracene deflagration heat is soaked up by the
    “tremendous surface area/unit mass aluminum pigment component”
    one can either INCREASE the tetracene concentration
    or DECREASE the aluminum pigment concentration to get a Real Live Pop.

    Not a very good answer to the question, but its consistent with my
    Weighty Observations Over The Decades…

    Yawn.

  6. #426
    Boolit Master
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    GONRA sez Traffer's exactly correct.
    After 9 11 never buy chemicals anymore but bet the firecracker guys have various size "powders" for sale.

    Its tempting to use the Al pigment but a you suggest, best to get larger size particles.
    Large enuf to have greatly reduced "surface area/unit mass" but still ignitable in your situation.

  7. #427
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
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    Apologies if this has already been discussed, though I've followed this thread from the beginning; but has anyone experimented with the Cheddite primer mix?
    I found this on Wikipedia: "Since the 1970s, Cheddite is the commercial name for an explosive compound used as an explosive primer for shotgun cartridges. It contains 90% potassium chlorate, 7% paraffin, 3% petroleum jelly, and traces of carbon black."
    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddite

    Thoughts?

  8. #428
    Boolit Master

    Idz's Avatar
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    The MSDS for Cheddite, also called clerinox, is mostly lead styphnate and barium nitrate. Potassium chlorate primers would be corrosive.

  9. #429
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks. So the info on WP is incorrect?

    Personally, I'm ok with corrosive primers. I'll probably just stick with the FA compounds.

  10. #430
    Boolit Master
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    Tracy - GONRA believes you have somehow stumbled on a Mining Explosive.
    That stuff you mention is NOT gonna "go bang" in a percussion primer. ???
    Last edited by GONRA; 04-10-2017 at 06:35 PM.

  11. #431
    Boolit Mold
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    @Marshall
    Chemicals started arriving and I am about to start making EPH 10 center fire primer mix. After I received a can of CaSi2 (see pictures attached)I noticed that this chemical should be stored in inert gas, in contact with water releases flammable gases and should be even handled under inert gas. What is your experience using this chemical? I don't feel safe opening this can in my room. Should I get some inert gas to use it? How should I use it when making a mix? How did you use it? In some place I read that it can burst into flames by itself. Is this information correct? I would be really thankful if you or somebody else would shed more light on this topic.

    valstietis

    Attachment 193012Attachment 193013

  12. #432
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GONRA View Post
    Tracy - GONRA believes you have somehow stumbled on a Mining Explosive.
    That stuff you mention is NOT gonna "go bang" in a percussion primer. ???
    Thanks, GONRA.

  13. #433
    Boolit Master

    Plate plinker's Avatar
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    !!!!valstietis!!! Yipes I don't think I would open that can without some good advice from somebody, nor would I use it in my home.

  14. #434
    Boolit Master
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    potassium chlorate . would be hard to find its like 500 al powder hasmat

  15. #435
    Boolit Master
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    It's not difficult to find. Skylighter has it.

  16. #436
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    I didn't want to start a new thread for this. I know a lot of people are still using these for primer so I am posting this. These are the best ones I have tried and this is the best deal I have seen. Legends Roll Caps
    http://www.shopko.com/product/entity/94281.uts

  17. #437
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by valstietis View Post
    @Marshall
    Chemicals started arriving and I am about to start making EPH 10 center fire primer mix. After I received a can of CaSi2 (see pictures attached)I noticed that this chemical should be stored in inert gas, in contact with water releases flammable gases and should be even handled under inert gas. What is your experience using this chemical? I don't feel safe opening this can in my room. Should I get some inert gas to use it? How should I use it when making a mix? How did you use it? In some place I read that it can burst into flames by itself. Is this information correct? I would be really thankful if you or somebody else would shed more light on this topic.

    valstietis

    Attachment 193012Attachment 193013
    would it be safe to put in a small chunk of dry ice when you close it up... might pop the top if you add too much, let it "melt" with the lid loose, then seal.

  18. #438
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Or a small can of Nitrogen. Just sqirt some in like you are reassembling a scope.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  19. #439
    Boolit Buddy
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    Did this thread go dead for some reason, been quite for over a month.
    Shaune509

  20. #440
    Boolit Master Skipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaune509 View Post
    Did this thread go dead for some reason, been quite for over a month.
    Shaune509
    This might have been the problem:

    The strongest reason for the people to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against the tyranny of government.
    -- Thomas Jefferson

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check