can you make priming compound?

[Traffer]

I'm back.. Traffer ,where in Dollar Tree did you see them? I know somewhere is printed the information for the FA-48 formula but I can't find it. Could someone direct me to it? On using hairspray to set the mix in the primers and percussion caps. I use Rave and I have experimented a lot with this stuff. You should see my hair, looks real nice now. I have used really light coats to very heavy coats.Sometimes six to eight heavy coats. Even with the heavy coats the percussion caps fired with power.No reduction observed at all. I have a tester made and can see the flame at the nipple. The Prime All I have been using so far needs the hairspray or It all comes out of the cups.
Ned

My apologies... I went to Dollar Tree today to get them and realized when I got there that it was actually at a Thrift store where I saw them. This is quite a story..
I rushed to the thrift store today just before closing and they were gone. The manager remembers them but neither of us could find them.
Now here is the amazing story. My birthday was yesterday (Thursday Sept 6) The day before on Wednesday I was at the thrift store killing time while my wife was shopping in a nearby store. As I poked around I thought to myself (or prayed actually) "I wonder if you are going to surprise me with a birthday present here God," It was at that moment I picked up the sifters, which were held together with a wire. I looked at them and thought, "I could use these", but not realizing that they were precision mesh strainers, I thought "I have too much stuff". Living in our tiny apartment there is very little room. So I put them back. When I saw the picture of them on the link that Marshall provided I thought. "gee those look exactly like the ones I was looking at yesterday". It wasn't until I put 2 and 2 together today that I realized all of the irony (if you want to look at it that way) of the situation. Here God was TRYING to give me a really nice birthday present and like a dope I rejected it. I was ballistic angry with myself for a couple of hours after finding them gone today.
Oh well at least I get to use the story to share my faith.
As far as you getting a really good price on precise straining screen, seriously, eBay has chunks you can buy for like a couple bucks per piece. I bought mine piece by piece that way. I don't have a set but I have all the sizes that I need. If you are not too up to speed on searching eBay let me know and I will find some links for you and share them.

[n.h.schmidt]

I have seen the screens on ebay. I don't know how many microns I should be using though. I got the ingredients to some of the mixes in the mail yesterday. One item to get yet,when in stock. I can now try Ron Brown's modified and see how it works..
Ned

[n.h.schmidt]

I have a idea that could work for repriming the 22rf cases. If you put in the priming(wet or dry?) and spun the case fast? It wouldn't be hard to rig up a way to hold the case on a motor . Hook up to a voltage scource and give it spin. I have worked with small motors a lot .Speeds from 0 to 50k is easy. Maybe even a electric drill might do it.
Ned


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Speeds from

[Traffer]

I have a idea that could work for repriming the 22rf cases. If you put in the priming(wet or dry?) and spun the case fast? It wouldn't be hard to rig up a way to hold the case on a motor . Hook up to a voltage scource and give it spin. I have worked with small motors a lot .Speeds from 0 to 50k is easy. Maybe even a electric drill might do it.
Ned


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Speeds from

You don't need to spin it into the rim on a 22lr. You can use a little hook tool or, I use a little tool with a small flat head that can pack it in when wet. Marshal uses a sonic jewelry cleaner to shake dry primer in then wets it. That method does not work for all types of priming compound. The industry has been using centrifugal (spinners) priming machines for a long time. I have heard that Eley now has a different method. But again, for small quantities it is not necessary. There has been a lot documented about reloading 22lr and priming compound on this thread and in other threads on this site as well as some on places like you tube. If you want to learn more about these things a lot is written down already.

[Traffer]

I have seen the screens on ebay. I don't know how many microns I should be using though. I got the ingredients to some of the mixes in the mail yesterday. One item to get yet,when in stock. I can now try Ron Brown's modified and see how it works..
Ned

Here is a link to explanations of mesh and micron straining. There is too much info here for us but if you scroll through you will find several charts that are helpful:
https://www.fs.fed.us/r1/fire/nrcg/2...and%20Mesh.pdf
Here is a chart that has some common mesh sizes for reference. I have from 60 to 100 mesh screens (not every increment but enough for my needs. I would think that the "like fine flour" mesh ground glass would be in the 80 mesh range. The mesh also corresponds to the grit on sand paper. so if you can visualize the grains on sandpaper it will give you an idea of the size of granules also:

[n.h.schmidt]

I have found a easy scource for 100 mesh screens. Pipe screens. Sold at tobacco shops. 1" dia is small but I think I could still work with that. Stainless steel. I'm still looking for the best way to reduce sand to something like dust. If I crush or grind it between steel or iron plates.You will get steel or iron in the dust. Is there a point where you can have the grit too small to work?
Ned

[ofitg]

I know somewhere is printed the information for the FA-48 formula but I can't find it.

These guys present a good summary of primer mixes -

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/th...ixtures.58110/

Is there a point where you can have the grit too small to work?

FWIW, when the U.S. Army deleted sand from their primer mix a century ago, they specified that the antimony sulfide crystals (providing the "grit" function, I suppose) should all pass through a 100-mesh screen, but no more than 50% should pass through a 200-mesh screen.

The Prime All I have been using so far needs the hairspray or It all comes out of the cups.

A forum member named "Wicket" steered me toward an elegant solution - compress the primer compound into the cup - no need for hairspray or shellac binder! See post #582 in this thread.

I would note that the Prime All kit includes four ingredients - antimony sulfide, potassium chlorate, sulfur, and dried shellac granules. No sand.
I haven't tried to measure the size of those antimony sulfide crystals, but it seems that the mixture fires reliably without any added grit.

[n.h.schmidt]

I have the prime all kit and it does work well. That being said the shellac does not seem to hold anything together. Following instructions all is placed into the cup and a drop of denatured alcohol added. A while later tamp it all down. When dry you are done. Only if you don't mind it all falling out as soon as you move the cups. I will give the compression a try. I have also heard of dissolving a bit of nylon into acetone and using that as the binder. ok it looks like glass powder is the way to go for grit in some formulas . How fine do you like to use? What was wrong with sand? Too hard on the guns?
Ned

[ofitg]

ok it looks like glass powder is the way to go for grit in some formulas . How fine do you like to use? What was wrong with sand? Too hard on the guns?
Ned

I mis-spoke in my previous post - the H-48 formula which the Army abandoned included glass powder, not sand...... I am not sure if powdered glass is significantly different from crushed sand (?)

Hatcher's Notebook mentions that some shooters thought the glass powder might injure the bore, but the book does not indicate whether this was ever proven to be true.

The antimony sulfide I bought several years ago was milled very fine; examining it through a magnifier, the particles appear to be smaller than 200 mesh. For that reason, I use crushed sand grit just to be on the safe side.
The sand I use was sifted through a 40-mesh screen.

[n.h.schmidt]

Thanks for the info about the grit. Where can I get ethyl alcohol? I haven't a clue about that.
Ned

[n.h.schmidt]

Well it turns out that I'm already using the stuff in denatured alcohol. I don't know why it isn't working to make the shellac bind anything.

[n.h.schmidt]

I think that the bullseye shellac may be the way. Could the shellac sold as gasket sealer at auto stores work as well? I have seen where you and others have used white glue as a binder. What do you mix it with? It sure doesn't thin out with any thing I'm using to date. It only becomes a glob in the alcohol I'm using. If I'm not using the right alcohol,where can I get what works?
Ned

[n.h.schmidt]

Bullseye Shellac is not a my Ace Hardware. I know I could have it sent to them and pick it up. It seems that much of what I want to do needs something ordered in. How do you get a drop on your primer. A dip stick? A eye dropper would work but would get sticky and shellac build up would end that fast. I will eventually get this worked out.Like most of us here ,I'm stubborn and don't give up easily.I stayed with home made percussion caps through the wilderness years when they barely worked. Now they have all the power needed. What way do you use to decap your berdan primers. I use whats called a universal decapper. It works great is fast and no harm to the case . The primer cups are still good too. I can do about four in a min. I'm slow others could go faster.
Ned

[n.h.schmidt]

Thank you for that. I have tried the small shaft de-primer myself. I broke them too easily. I do now press the percussion caps on the drill press. They look better and seem to have more power. The amount of prime in the cup is only about the thickness of cardboard when it is compressed. It is safer this way as the cup is more intact after fireing. Fewer fragments to do harm. I have tried Ron Brown's primer mix.Using both crushed sand and glass. The sand prime mostly worked and with good power. The ones with glass would not fire. I don't really want to use that anyway.It was fun to try.
For my berdan de-capping I use a tube and plunger setup. It always works and no stress to the case.

[Traffer]

@ Marshall @ Ned
Sounds like I am going to be making up some Berdan depriming tools in the near future.
I have never fussed with Berdan primers. About all I know about them is they have two smaller flash holes on the inside of the case. Will have to do some research on them. Sounds like the 4500 primers have even smaller holes...
One quick question, After depriming a Berdan case, can a flash hole be drilled in the primer socket to facilitate the use of a Boxer primer?

[Mr_Sheesh]

Traffer, I haven't tried this but why add a 3rd flash hole when you already have 2? The Berdan Anvil would be more of a problem I'd think?

[TheDoctor]

Still holding my breath for you to make a cup and anvil making set.

[n.h.schmidt]

Repriming berdan cups and reusing them is a lot easier . Converting just about any berdan case to boxer is a lot of work, I have done it in several ways too. Repriming with the lifted toy pistol caps in a berdan cup would be easy. Just do it while wet and seat. Let dry and your ready. Safe until dry.I would use twenty dots in a large rifle primer like the 217 size.
Ned

[Traffer]

Still holding my breath for you to make a cup and anvil making set.

AAAAAAhahahahaha. Well it may be another 25-40 years. Just be patient. I have seen some material on how to do it though.

[Traffer]

Repriming berdan cups and reusing them is a lot easier . Converting just about any berdan case to boxer is a lot of work, I have done it in several ways too. Repriming with the lifted toy pistol caps in a berdan cup would be easy. Just do it while wet and seat. Let dry and your ready. Safe until dry.I would use twenty dots in a large rifle primer like the 217 size.
Ned

Thanks Ned,
I just watched three videos on decapping Berdan. Being new to the reloading world, I really had no idea even how Berdan primers worked. Now that I see, Looks a lot simpler to be reloading Berdan primed brass than boxer. (If one does not want to purchase primers at $.04 per unit.) Very cheap very easy.= sign me up.
It's kind of going off the track of the thread here but this is what I think:
In my experimentation with removing firing pin dents in Rim Fire ammo, one process I toyed with was hydraulic. So I have some experience with it. For decapping Berdan, it's the way to go. This guy has the basics figured out here:
https://youtu.be/Q0q0E4GtSa4
The step further that I would take it is to do the entire operation in a bucket of water with a much longer hydraulic ram tool (the nut driver in the video) . Mount the shell holder on a steel base that will sit stably inside of a bucket maybe a couple of inches off the bottom so there is a gap underneath for the primers to fall into, with a hole under the shell holder so the fall through. Then just put enough water in the bucket to cover the cases. Make a long ram from a piece of bolt or something that would stick out of the bucket high enough to be able to access with a nice heavy hammer and you have a large volume depriming rig. The one part of the process that would require some experimentation would be to make the plunger end of the ram in such a way that you could fix a case on it while the case was out of the bucket and dry so that it would not be sealed. Because the water would have to fill the case after you place it into the bucket. That way you could use the whole unit ...ram with case on the end...to put in the bucket of water and snap it into the case holder without getting your hands wet. It may sound kind of complicated but it would keep you from having to get wet while doing it. If you don't mind getting wet, The video shows the way for simple yet fun Berdan decapping.
I think that what people may struggle with in this hydraulic method is having a nice tight fit on the ram to create the pressure to deprime. I have found that if the fit is not quite tight enough you can overcome the lack of good seal with a quicker blow. A quicker blow simply requires a larger hammer. I use a nice 3 lb hand mall to resize 22lr cases with this method. By the way doing it with 22lr cases will make them like little balloons if you don't also have them held in a sizing die as you place the hydraulic pressure on them with a small sledge hammer. ...I ramble...
Bottom line, it appears to be mere child's play to deprime Berdan cases. I don't know why people are so afraid of it. Is it because you can't to it quietly in the reloading room with nice store bought presses?
PS upon further consideration, I see that I forgot about the dreaded "squirt back" When you knock a ram into a case full of water with a hammer you will have the inevitable squirt back out of the sides of the case upwards. As I recall it would give me a bit of a shower after doing a couple dozen 22lr cases. Might have to rig up an umbrella. Joking aside, that is something that would have to be worked out unless people wouldn't mind getting a little wet during the process.