Titan ReloadingLoad DataLee PrecisionRepackbox
Reloading EverythingRotoMetals2WidenersInline Fabrication
MidSouth Shooters Supply
Page 24 of 31 FirstFirst ... 141516171819202122232425262728293031 LastLast
Results 461 to 480 of 610

Thread: can you make priming compound?

  1. #461
    Boolit Buddy ofitg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    359
    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Im a bit OT,but I would like to know the final steps for a melted sugar powder.Grain size?.....can it be used as a tablet in say a 45/70 size case,or does it need to be granulated.......what size granules.......and finally,is the stuff touchy?........The only local advice is to test in a strong gun......The holy black is nice,but this stuff is so simple to make,clean too,it seems very attractive.
    John.k, for what it's worth, I have heard about one type of sugar-based blackpowder substitute which was actually available commercially (a few years ago in South Africa) - called Sannadex.

    http://www.whitesmoke.co.za/powwow/v...0a4ba2a0e335f4

    Reported to be 63% KNO3, 35% Sugar (sucrose or dextrose), and 2% Iron Oxide.
    The factory milled the dry ingredients to 150-250 microns in size, then incorporated them by heating to 130-150 degrees Celcius for some unspecified period of time.

    You might want to research Sannadex - it sounds like it was sold in granulated form, not tablets/pellets.
    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

    - Thomas Jefferson


  2. #462
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    brisbane ,qld,australia
    Posts
    2,125
    Thanks,Offtig,but for preference i dont want to go to additives,especially in the 2% range that would require very thorough mixing.I may also sound a bit vague,just remember we dont all live in the land of the free.Back a few years in this thread,users report success using black as a booster,and as I intend to use fixed ammo,I dont see this as necessary........but i would like to get some idea of a grain size ,be real handy if i could use discs or tablets........the stuff is soft when hot,and easily formed ,but is sticky by nature,and so smaller granulation may present a problem in processing.

  3. #463
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    brisbane ,qld,australia
    Posts
    2,125
    OK,thanks ,I will get some reagent grade before using the stuff in a gun.......Ive used up all the first lot amusing the kids,young and old.Im pretty sure there is relevant info here from about 3, or 4 years ago.Just needs to be found.Need to get a remote heating and stirring plant operational,located where any flare will go unnoticed.

  4. #464
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    northeastern washington
    Posts
    353
    Traffer, Marshall and others, hope we are just busy with other things and this thread has not died. Been very informative and would be handier I think in the future if some one could condense the important parts to make the reading easier, also this could be done with the black powder thread that is now at 100+ pages. Just my $.02 worth.
    Shaune509

  5. #465
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    2,725
    I am still at it, but had to quit for a while with health issues and moving to new apartment and, the garage that I worked in (unheated) had the power burn out. The last couple of weeks I have reworked a collet crimping die yet again. This time to support the side walls while crimping. The results are by far the best yet. I am able to crimp them consistently from 45lbs to 55lbs to pull the bullets. This heavy and consistent crimp is necessary in a 22 rimfire with modern powder because the pressure has to be contained as the primer ignites the powder. If the initiation pressure is not created the powder does not burn well at all. To the point of getting click-bangs with very low velocity. The other project I have been working on is again reworking the swaging dies. I have an idea for a better die but still using my old style dies which end up deforming after a hundred or so swages. It causes a situation where I have to remove the die and deburr the joint where the two dies join. I have a batch of 22lr made up that are very consistent in size, weight, crimp, primer and load. I am hoping for some good accuracy from these. As far as the primer goes, I believe Marshall has been very successful in both developing the primers and the application of the primer. But I will let him address that.
    My contribution to the process of reloading 22lr is more in the bullet. The hours spent developing a successful swaging is finally paying off. I am hoping that my next generation of dies will not need to be constantly tweaked as I use them. The new design, plus heat treating the dies should yield dies that others can use without the hassles that are involved at this time. Here is a picture of my latest swaged bullets. These are 40 grain 22lr bullets at about 11-12 bhn. There is a factory round in the picture for reference. These are powder coated with Smoke's clear.Attachment 216304
    Last edited by Traffer; 03-13-2018 at 03:35 AM.

  6. #466
    Boolit Buddy ofitg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    359
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall View Post

    I have been collaborating with a friend in Brazil who briefly shared some of his work in this thread, but deleted it because of the strict laws discouraging this kind of work in Brazil. He has recently had a breakthrough in using modified "srike on the box" matchhead powder (NOT strike anywhere match tips we are familiar with) to create a compound similar to H-48 priming compound. I have encouraged him to share his results as soon as he writes them up.
    Marshall, I'd be interested in seeing this. Would he relay the info to you, so you could post it here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall View Post

    Finally, I am always eager to find out what others are doing in this area. So, if you guys are working on this topic, please share your findings. I realize the pressure is off since Obama is gone, but this work will be needed again when the DemonCraps return to power.

    Marshall
    I thought this would be worth sharing -

    Another forum member (username "Wicket") introduced me to a noteworthy step for loading percussion caps.

    Homemade percussion caps commonly utilize some type of binder (eg, shellac) to "glue" the primer compound inside the little metal cups. This approach works, but it has its limitations - I put four of my old (shellac binder) homemade caps inside the rubber drum of a rock tumbler and let them bounce around in there for one hour - three of the caps survived the ride, but the primer pellet fell out of the fourth one.

    Wicket advised me that he has been loading caps with H-48 mixture - dry, no shellac - and then pressing the primer mixture into the bottom of each cap, using a 0.16-inch-diameter steel rod clamped in the chuck of a drill press (an arbor press could also be used). He used approximately 10 pounds of force, applied to the end of the drill press operating handle.

    As best as I can measure it, my drill press has a 12:1 "leverage ratio" (ie, 12 inches of handle movement produces one inch of chuck movement). Assuming Wicket's drill press to be similar, we estimated that 10 pounds of force on the handle would translate into 120 pounds of force on the end of that 0.16-inch-diameter steel rod - if we're doing the math correctly, the H-48 mixture is subjected to 6K psi of pressure. This pressure is far higher than the pressure used by factories to compress black powder. We believe that the sulfur in the H-48 mix goes "colloidal" (ie, fluid) at such a high pressure, acting as a binder. Wicket subjected 12 of his "pressed" caps to one hour in a rock tumbler, and all 12 retained their primer pellets.

    Duly impressed, I gave it a try - I applied 20 pounds of force to the handle of my drill press, and I was surprised that none of the caps fired while being pressed (just the same, I will always wear safety glasses during this step). I ran my own "hour in the tumbler" test with a few of the caps, and became convinced that Wicket's idea was a good one - no need for a shellac binder, no waiting for the shellac to dry, and the caps' mechanical durability is superb.

    ..
    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

    - Thomas Jefferson


  7. #467
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    6
    @ofitg,

    Thanks for sharing your information on making robust durable primer pellets without an added binder. To test your intriguing sufur idea, could you make a small batch of H-48 compound without the sulfur and see if the compound behaves the same way? you could add sulfur to the batch afterwards so you do not waste any compound.

    I will make sure that the information on modified matchhead powder makes it to this forum. I'll give my friend a few more weeks to write up his work to make sure he gets the credit he deserves. This finding actually has worldwide importance since the brand of matches he uses (Swedish Match Company) are sold and available worldwide. So, almost everyone could make the simple modification to the matchhead powder.

    Marshall

  8. #468
    Boolit Buddy ofitg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    359
    Marshall, it might be a couple of weeks before I have access to everything I need to conduct that experiment (home remodeling underway at this time). For now, I can offer this excerpt from Davis's book, Chemistry of Powder & Explosives (page 46) - manufacture of black powder -



    http://library.sciencemadness.org/li...explosives.pdf


    .... and this excerpt from Buchanan's book, Gunpowder, Explosives and the State (page 246) -



    https://books.google.com/books?id=7n...loidal&f=false


    I agree, your contact's breakthrough could have widespread value (in years to come, we might need it as well). If his government frowns on such activities, I can understand his reluctance..... I hope you can find some way to present the information which would not expose your contact to legal jeopardy.
    Last edited by ofitg; 03-18-2018 at 01:53 AM.
    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

    - Thomas Jefferson


  9. #469
    Boolit Buddy ofitg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    359
    Marshall, cheers to you and RC! The contractors finished up on my house two days ago, now I'm in the process of moving a couple tons of furniture/belongings from the garage back to its proper place inside the house. I will conduct that "experiment" for you one day soon.

    RC's method is somewhat similar to another procedure I have heard about - here is a message I received from another fellow who lives overseas (on the other side of the Atlantic) - he also wishes to remain anonymous -

    Hi Ofitg, The priming powder I make is called Anderson's mixture and I have no idea of it's exact formula. However I found on YouTube some kid who made it from safety matches and I tried it and it works perfectly for me.

    Here is what I do: I buy a whole packet of safety matches (10 boxes) and I spend some time crushing off all the heads with a small pair of pliers. Once that is all done I mill the whole caboodle in a mortar and pestle to as fine a powder as I can get it, then I sift it into a container through a 40 micron screen. Taking a new scalpel I scrape all the phosphorus off the sides of the boxes taking care not to scrape too much cardboard off in the process. Once that is done I mill the whole lot in the cleaned mortar and pestle (important or it will explode) and sift it into a different container through the same 40 micron screen.

    I knock out caps with the cap die that I made, then I take two measures of match head powder and mix it very gently with one measure of phosphorus from the side of the boxes, then I add one and a half measures of very fine BP that I also crush in the mortar. The final powder looks "greyish pink".

    I fill each cap about half full with powder and then put in a thin paper card that I punch out from cigarette paper, and press it down firmly with a wooden dowel. Once all the caps are full I set them up and spray two coats of firm set hair spray over the lot ensuring that they get nicely soaked. When they are dry they work perfectly I have yet had a failed to fire.


    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    For clarification, I must point out that my contact was fabricating percussion caps instead of modern primers.
    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

    - Thomas Jefferson


  10. #470
    Boolit Buddy ofitg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    359
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
    @ofitg,

    Thanks for sharing your information on making robust durable primer pellets without an added binder. To test your intriguing sufur idea, could you make a small batch of H-48 compound without the sulfur and see if the compound behaves the same way? you could add sulfur to the batch afterwards so you do not waste any compound.
    Marshall, the "honey-do" chores are about done, so this afternoon I conducted that test you suggested.

    I blended a dry mixture of 6 parts potassium chlorate, 3 parts antimony sulfide, and 2 parts silica grit, approximating the H-48 compound without sulfur. I dispensed 1/2 grain of this dry mixture into each of ten empty "Tap-O-Cap" hulls, and I pressed each cap with a calculated pressure of 10k PSI. None of the caps fired while being pressed.

    I subjected the ten caps to the "hour in the rock tumbler" test, and all ten caps survived with their "primer pellets" intact. Interesting......

    I still suspect that the sulfur would add to the caps' durability, but evidently I would need to use a different test protocol to determine the "failure threshold".
    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

    - Thomas Jefferson


  11. #471
    Boolit Buddy ofitg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    359
    Marshall, I'm fresh out of theories, LOL. I'm just tickled that I won't need to use shellac in my percussion caps anymore.

    I've been puzzling over RC's message, and was hoping you might be able to clarify something for me. As I interpret it, he originally loaded his primers with the incendiary material from safety matches, topped off by phosphorus-laden discs punched out from the "striker" surface on the match box.
    In his latest iteration, he replaced the phosphorus-laden disc with ordinary paper, and added antimony sulfide to the incendiary filler for the primers.

    Did the addition of antimony sulfide enable his primers to fire upon impact?

    I have seen numerous references to the instability of potassium chlorate in contact with sulfur. Some bad mojo there?
    In his graphic, RC indicates that "Glue/S" makes up 23.6% of his new primer compound. Does anybody know those relative proportions of glue and sulfur (for instance, could it be 13.6% glue and 10% sulfur)? Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by ofitg; 04-09-2018 at 01:52 PM.
    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

    - Thomas Jefferson


  12. #472
    Boolit Buddy ofitg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    359
    Marshall, your explanation - residual moisture - sounds plausible. Maybe I will play with that idea, eventually.

    Meanwhile, I commend you for finding those ingredients/proportions for the Swedish Match head composition. I found a couple of Safety Data Sheets online, but they were not as detailed as the information you presented -

    https://www.espocatalogue.org/eSupply/COSHH/68063.pdf

    http://www.thuisexperimenteren.nl/sc...ty-matches.pdf

    I also also found a couple of Safety Data Sheets for matches available here in the U.S. -

    http://www.gjfood.com/pdf/msds/199_862230.pdf

    https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pd...ce0a4230f3.pdf

    Interestingly, U.S. match heads contain sulfur, while the Swedish Match products do not..... and the Swedish Match head compositions contain red phosphorous, while the U.S. match heads do not.
    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

    - Thomas Jefferson


  13. #473
    Boolit Master TheDoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Needville, TX
    Posts
    652
    Has anyone ever ran across a die set to draw your own cups and make anvils?

  14. #474
    Boolit Buddy ofitg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    359
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoctor View Post
    Has anyone ever ran across a die set to draw your own cups and make anvils?
    See post #585 - Marshall's contact in South America reports that he has such equipment.
    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto."

    - Thomas Jefferson


  15. #475
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    995
    10 + years ago, GONRA used a CH-Swag-O-Matic Press, my home made tooling,
    to make lottsa 9mm Berdan primer cups for 14.5mm Soviet reloading.

    2 Stage process: Blanks from 42mil Cu sheet, Harbor Freight 7/16 inch hole punch.

    Lottsa verk to "get it right". + / - 50 millionths micrometer helps.....

  16. #476
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    2,725
    Someday if no one else does, I am going to make the tooling for cups and anvils. Somebody needs to do it. Primer prices are too high and now with Marshall's priming compound being so good, it has to be done.

  17. #477
    Boolit Master TheDoctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Needville, TX
    Posts
    652
    I would definitely be willing to buy a set of dies to make cups and anvils!

  18. #478
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    2,725
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
    @Traffer,

    If you were able to design a die set that mounts in a single stage press, that would be a significant advance in this project. Some, like GONRA, do not trust reusing previously fired primers. For me personally, a die set to make 5mm berdan primer cups would be extremely helpful. Popping out fired berdan primers non-destructively is a slow process. Good luck in your efforts if you take on this worthy project.

    Marshall
    I was thinking in terms of dies for a punch press like Mauser 98K has which is shown in his videos. I don't know if it would be worth making an anvil die set to make one anvil per lever pull on a reloading press. With a punch press a die set could be ganged to punch from 10 to 50 per stroke. That is what I think our friend in South America has. But even if I could make a hammer punch ...something you could hit with a big hammer that would punch a few at a time, it might be feasible. It is a stretch for me to make these kinds of dies though. Especially until I get a heat treating set up. So don't hold your breath on me doing this. I was hoping that someone with far better tools and know how would take up the mantle on this one. Mostly trying to generate some interest here.

  19. #479
    Boolit Buddy Desertbuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    315
    Really interested to see what you guys come up with on the primer dies.
    THE GUN
    The gun has been praised.
    The gun has been denounced.
    The gun has played a critical role in History.
    The gun has been implemented for good.
    The gun has been abused for evil.
    With the gun comes a great moral responsibility!
    To better understand the gun is to better under stand History. And with the gun protect your future.
    D.B

  20. #480
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,436
    A freechex III the correct diameter works. Just reuse the anvils.
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

Page 24 of 31 FirstFirst ... 141516171819202122232425262728293031 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check