can you make priming compound?

[Oreo]

Good work Marshall! I have been following your progress and look forward to your continued reports.

[ofitg]

Good work Marshall! I have been following your progress and look forward to your continued reports.

Ditto

[waksupi]

Marshal, as a test, after the primers are charged in a dry state, try spraying a coat of hair spray over them, and let dry. See if that doesn't block ambient moisture.

[vixny]

How to make Primer Compound
Modern cartridges use lead styphnate or a similar lead based compound as a priming compound.
Lead styphnate is a VERY SENSITIVE explosive and its synthesis should be performed only by professionals working under laboratory conditions
Example Method:
A saturated solution of Styphnic acid in methanol is formed and to it Lead Monoxide is added. Heating is continued whilst stirring until a solid mass remains;
C6H3N3O8(s) + PbO(s) => PbC6H2N3O8(s).

Ok so with everything reloading getting so #$%&*-@ expensive would anyone be willing to tell me how one can make some priming compound at home? In real SMALL batches!

[Desertbuck]

How to make Primer Compound
Modern cartridges use lead styphnate or a similar lead based compound as a priming compound.
Lead styphnate is a VERY SENSITIVE explosive and its synthesis should be performed only by professionals working under laboratory conditions
Example Method:
A saturated solution of Styphnic acid in methanol is formed and to it Lead Monoxide is added. Heating is continued whilst stirring until a solid mass remains;
C6H3N3O8(s) + PbO(s) => PbC6H2N3O8(s).

I'm using the old Frankford Arsenal mix, while it is corrosive I have no problems cleaning my guns with hot soapy water. Chemicals that require a laboratory in order to handle, and the possibil danger of getting poisoned no thanks. I'll leave that to the manufacturer's.
Thanks for the information. I have no idea how to discern that formula all I see is a bunch of numbers and what you call its. lol

[otonel]

Lead styphnate is a VERY SENSITIVE explosive

It is mild sensitive to impact and VERY SENSITIVE to electrostatic discharge so don`t wear synthetic clothes when work with this.
What do you think about complex salt of basic lead picrate like monobasic lead picrate-lead nitrate-lead acetate, is powerful sensitive and is made from easy to find or synthesis chemicals.
I was read this patent https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=p.../US3293091.pdf and tested a salt of lead picrate -lead nitrate lead acetate with some extra lead nitrate and aluminum
For my tested I use a hammer and that mixture work good at first impression.

[perotter]

otonel,

Thanks for the post. Hope you let us know how it works in a primer.

Good to see you are still around. I don't often get to the other 3 or 4 forums that we are both members of. It's been a couple of years since I last run into you. I hope your projects are going well.

[perotter]

.....
Lead styphnate is a VERY SENSITIVE explosive and its synthesis should be performed only by professionals working under laboratory conditions
......

Or it can end up being very insensitive. Each batch should be tested.

I too have long been of the opinion that it isn't the 1st thing one should make. And you didn't even mention that some of the equipment(containers) needed is expensive.

[Texantothecore]

I love this place. I have been trying to use caps and the paper is jamming the nipple on my percussion gun. As soon as I can lay my hands on some chemicals I am going to try this.

Probably will start with FA 42 and go from there.

[perotter]

I love this place. I have been trying to use caps and the paper is jamming the nipple on my percussion gun. As soon as I can lay my hands on some chemicals I am going to try this.

Probably will start with FA 42 and go from there.

If FA42 doesn't quite live up to the task, add a little powdered aluminum to it. Start with about 1%. The powdered aluminum throws big hot sparks into the powder and the hot gases will be at a higher temperature.

[Texantothecore]

Perotter

Can I substitute potassium perchlorate for potassium chlorate. And antimony trisulfide for antimony sulfide?

Thanks
Mike

[perotter]

Perotter

Can I substitute potassium perchlorate for potassium chlorate. And antimony trisulfide for antimony sulfide?

Thanks
Mike

I've never gotten that to work, but you can try it. Potassium chlorate is easy enough to get and I figure there is a reason they used it in the first place. Potassium chlorate is just plain more sensitive.

Antimony trisulfide is what we mean when we say antimony sulfide.

[perotter]

I should also state that potassium perchlorate produces hydrochloric acid when used and potassium chlorate doesn't. I don't know if that makes it any more corrosive than using potassium chlorate.

[Texantothecore]

Nobade, my "recipe" for the Span-Am War mix -

I pre-mix the potassium chlorate with sodium bicarbonate in a 25:1 ratio - eg, 2.5 oz of potassium chlorate to 0.1 oz of sodium bicarbonate - add a few spoons of water to form a "ketchup" consistency, stir thoroughly, then dry.

Weigh out the following dry ingredients -

17 grains of the potassium chlorate/sodium bicarbonate powder
9 grains of antimony sulfide
3 grains of sulfur
4 grains of fine sand (passes through a 40-mesh screen)

These dry ingredients are then mixed - a safe way is to pour them back and forth between two pieces of paper.

Next I add 1/3 CC (the small LEE powder measure) of Zinsser "Bulls Eye" clear liquid shellac from the hardware store. This product is advertised to be 21% shellac solids by volume. This works out to almost one grain of shellac solids per 33 grains of dry ingredients - almost 3% concentration, but it works fine.

Next I add enough denatured alcohol to achieve a "toothpaste" consistency for loading... since I'm loading percussion caps instead of primers for metallic cartridges, the subsequent steps are not applicable to this thread.

Can you expand on your technique for percussion caps? Some of us are looking to do just that.

Mike

[ofitg]

Can you expand on your technique for percussion caps? Some of us are looking to do just that.

Mike

TTTC, here's a write-up I did a couple years ago, on a different forum -

http://gunslingersgulch.com/index.php?topic=120.0

[Texantothecore]

TTTC, here's a write-up I did a couple years ago, on a different forum -

http://gunslingersgulch.com/index.php?topic=120.0

Thanks for the link. It explains it well.

[Texantothecore]

I am trying to get a better grip on this chemical reaction. Can anyone comment on the contribution of antimony trisulfide to the chemical reaction?

[perotter]

@Texantothecore,

Antimony sulfide serves as both a fuel and a frictionator.

Marshall

Also as sensitizer as it reacts chemically easier than many other fuel/frictionizers. There is a chemical reason for this that can be used to show why it does. I don't really have a firm handle on it and have go the textbook examples to understand why metal tri-sulfides do that.

I have substituted arsenic tri-sulfide for antimony tri-sulfide as that is known to work better by being a stronger sensitizer. I didn't get it to work enough better to do what I wanted.

PS. Note that tin sulfide also can be used instead and a few guys here have posted here about them doing so. Tin sulfide is DIY. IMO, one the main reason antimony sulfide has normally been used is because of cost and it's worldwide availability in nature.

[Texantothecore]

Thanks Perroter and Marshall. I do know it is used in star displays and is probably a good sparking medium.

[Texantothecore]

I'm going to check the result of ammonium permanganate(non-corrosive). Currently the chemicals to make it are available everywhere in the US. And making doesn't require an equipment, special process or be expensive. This would be one that wouldn't have a real long life. Something like 6 months to a year. This could be a reason that it was never used for commercial ones.

Please keep in mind that testing this may not happen in a few days. Although it might go fast. It could be that it is to bulky.

Did you test this ammonium permanganate mix?