phillips head anyone ?

[R.Ph. 380]

Don't do that to me.........

Here

OH, Man, That is NICE. I'll take a thousand in .308 for my 300 BLK.

Bill

[taco650]

Well, I was able to get the first mold finished and I thought it looked pretty good (until I cast some bullets)....
I guess I missed something in the programming, it wasn't following the surfaces as I'd expected and I just didn't see it.
I just had that feeling about this mold, I was trying a simpler method and got bit.
I have another program from a different CAM program so I'll try that at some point after I go through it and make as sure as possible it isn't going to make a mess of this machine.
It was postproccessed for a similar controller but not the exact model I have.

Anyway here's what I got. It weighs 162gr lino but is a no go.

The bullet on top is 90' to the parting line and looks fine.
The problem is the bottom bullet which is on the parting line.
The algorithm didn't follow the surfaces as I expected, so, bad bullet.






It's doubly dissapointing because the mold casts great and the bullets fell right out of the mold with a little tap.
Wife says "just don't look at it from the side" Grrrrrrrrrrr



I had done this one a couple months ago but was in no hurry to get it home.
It's a two cavity, just regular bullets, the RN is modeled after a bullet I use to buy for my Jap rifle, Speer .313 175gr RN.
Haven't been able to buy them for years now so I thought I'd try to duplicate it in lead.
The other is a Lyman 311467 or close to it. That one took some time and mold smoking to get it to start dropping from the mold properly.

You are a perfectionist aren't you? Those "conventional" bullets look really good.

[hunter12]

I wonder if the spiral cut will make the boolits "walk" after being shot? Kinda like a pitcher throwing a curve ball...

[oldpara]

I wonder if the spiral cut will make the boolits "walk" after being shot? Kinda like a pitcher throwing a curve ball...

Logic might tell me that, yes, because of the rifling twist and flutes combined it could be an unpredictable projo,
but it's hard to imagine all the forces inflicted on the bullet.
Kicked in the but with 20-30- 40,000psi, traveling 2000fps, 150,000rpm. Maybe logic be damned, that bullet might just go where it's pointed, having little choice till it slows down.
It's a facinating thing ! I wish there were a way we normal guys could film or witness somehow what is going on from bullet exit to 100yds down range and beyond. It sure would help to answer some questions about what work when and where.

[BSalty]

This thread is chuck full of Win!

[GunFun]

Are the square drive bullets "for Turks"?

[oldpara]

Are the square drive bullets "for Turks"?

OK, I'm willing to show my "numb" side again...
"for Turks" ?

[GunFun]

Famous advertising gimmick for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_gun

It is a longstanding debate about what practical difference it was intended to make.

[oldpara]

Famous advertising gimmick for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puckle_gun

It is a longstanding debate about what practical difference it was intended to make.

And here is just another reason I'm thankful and grateful for the wealth of info this site has !

That gun is the craziest thing I've ever read. "Be like us or we'll shoot you with square bullets" Grrrr.
Well, except for the square bullets I cut a mold for.
At least my bullets have a full diameter driving band and base band that is "round".
Now, if I can get around to proving they're stable, well that remains to be seen.
But then again, they're as stable as I am or something...

Thanks for that interesting bit of info, I had no idea.

[GunFun]

Thank you for this fascinating thread. I gotta say that fluted .30 cal bullet is very cool.

I also like the idea described above of the aguila bullets. I'd still want them in lead rather than zinc, but the design is clever. The DDupleks segmented steel shotgun slugs have a similar logic to the design so that dense tissue closes the petals, and soft tissue opens them explosively. A heavy for caliber hard alloy .357 bullet of that design would be very cool for areas where you have cougars coyotes, hogs or black bears.

[Jeffrey]

It may not be perfect, but I'm sure you could get whatever you wanted for it: $.

[oldpara]

Thank you for this fascinating thread. I gotta say that fluted .30 cal bullet is very cool.

I also like the idea described above of the aguila bullets. I'd still want them in lead rather than zinc, but the design is clever. The DDupleks segmented steel shotgun slugs have a similar logic to the design so that dense tissue closes the petals, and soft tissue opens them explosively. A heavy for caliber hard alloy .357 bullet of that design would be very cool for areas where you have cougars coyotes, hogs or black bears.

If memory serves, the Aguila is a 3 or 4 petaled arrangement.
Zinc is harddddd stuff, so perhaps they were able to design something that performs like you were writing about.
In lead it seems to me to be a tough design to get right. perhaps a petaled/segmented hollow cavity with a pointed brass insert, where the petals/segmented lead around the insert were dished or cupped....
It would be fun to design and try something like that.

[GunFun]

Even a failed attempt would be interesting to see.

[fixit]

this is way TOO much fun!!!

[oldpara]

Even a failed attempt would be interesting to see.

Just off the top... 190grSWC and 180gr RFP with a brass insert.
Would it work ? I have no idea. The cavity would need to be tapered ? As would the insert to facilitate expansion ?
The serrations too much, too little ?
Anyway just an initial thought that possibly could be cut. The cuts on the top of the nose could be a problem (undercuts).









Any ideas, suggestions, poo poo's ?
Not saying I'll be able to cut it givin the short time frame till company closing but, but, but, maybe if I dance real good for them...

[GunFun]

Cool, but I want it simple to make in quantity.

Here are my inexpert thougths
Why not an HP with segments similar to aguila and fill the insert with something like hot glue or caulk? Basically like the Hornady Critical defense but simpler.

It seems like the things needed to work are:
- segments that can separate
- a hinge/shear line ring at the base of the petals to allow them to flex in or out, and explode outward on very soft. basically a groove just below where the petals end that would allow them to hinge outward or break off at max expansion once your little notches tear all the way down. DDupleks has some animations of their Hexolit 32 design that shows what I mean better than I can tell. I think theirs are lathe turned rather than cast though.

- a bevel on the leading edge of the petals that will force them in if they hit hard material. This must strike the target before the internal pressure in the cavity takes over. Thus if it hits a hard object the opening gets smaller and reduces the opening force.
- a large opening to the cavity shaped to push outward if it fills with softer stuff. possibly with some object or compound that will hit the target just after the leading edge. In soft tissue this needs to fill quickly and push outward. Soft matter just below flush with the outer bevel might be about right. I bet there is a urethane caulk that would have a similar consistency to the gunk in a Hornady critical duty bullet, that you could squirt in and then swipe with your finger to be just under flush. This could solve the clothing plugging problem HPs have too.

[GunFun]

some thoughts if you do keep the brass or copper insert.

Make it a diameter that could be sheared off from common rod or wire. The shear tool or saw could have a stop, so that you can make them quickly to a uniform length. No lathing needed.

Keep the tip flat so that soft tissue will push on it harder.
Keep at or just below the leading edge of the petals. I think below is probably better. Thus a very hard target could smear the leading edge of the petals closed partially over the center insert making a penetrator. Softer material wouldn't be hard enough to bend the edges and would get a chance to push on the insert.

Taper the inside bottom third or so of the HP cavity, and keep the insert cylindrical so that the insert stops at the taper during assembly that will leave a little conical hollow under the insert. As it is driven down, it would then push the petals outward.

for this or the caulk filled design I think this part is important:

There is a flat edge to your petals that is like a meplat. I think the design requires that this surface be beveled such that force striking that surface drives the petals inward. Only tissue soft enough to fill the cavity can counteract this force and tip them to an angle where they want to expand outward. This would happen better with the shear line described in the above post and also with deeper grooves to delineate the petals.

[GunFun]

Here is a terrible MS paint of what I mean. It doesn't belong in the same thread as your renders, but what can you do.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kKzQigHsi9LzM-uUO2d8QyQowhdfImbImcWfkclKNuc?feat=embedwebsite">< img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z-VoJYCi1vA/UXh93ua4igI/AAAAAAAACv0/55gkyh7hknA/s144/Cast%2520HP-Penetrator%2520slug%2520design.jpg" height="76" width="144" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/stambauz/DropBox?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKb4gYns3KPqoQE&f eat=embedwebsite">Drop Box</a></td></tr></table>

In case the picture didn't work, here is another attempt:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink


Obviously you would know better how to implement grease grooves and the like. For that matter, you probably know it all better,

The insert could be cut off cylindrical, with the bottom domed by rolling it in your fingers against a belt sander. This could make them quickly and still functional.

[oldpara]

OK, am I processing what you're design intent is ?
Here's the latest:















If it's not what's in your minds eye we'll try again

[oldpara]

Here is a terrible MS paint of what I mean. It doesn't belong in the same thread as your renders, but what can you do.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kKzQigHsi9LzM-uUO2d8QyQowhdfImbImcWfkclKNuc?feat=embedwebsite">< img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z-VoJYCi1vA/UXh93ua4igI/AAAAAAAACv0/55gkyh7hknA/s144/Cast%2520HP-Penetrator%2520slug%2520design.jpg" height="76" width="144" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/stambauz/DropBox?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKb4gYns3KPqoQE&f eat=embedwebsite">Drop Box</a></td></tr></table>

In case the picture didn't work, here is another attempt:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink


Obviously you would know better how to implement grease grooves and the like. For that matter, you probably know it all better,

The insert could be cut off cylindrical, with the bottom domed by rolling it in your fingers against a belt sander. This could make them quickly and still functional.

Is this what you're design intent is ?















If not we'll do it again
That's the enjoyment of the passion.