phillips head anyone ?

[oldpara]

I always did wonder if you put a twist design in the nose of the bullet that would go along with the twist of the rifle if it would help lessen drop due to more controlled spin and buck the wind better?

It would be tricky to test.
I guess you'd have to make the mold for the spiral bullet and then make another mold with the same profile, drive bands etc, without the spiral and do some testing.
Identical loads, conditions, blah, blah....

Time..... My kingdom for some Time...

[Malgus]

I'm working on the 30 cal Whistle bullet now, it won't really whistle, it's a solid bullet but maybe at some point I can cobble together a core pin for it, if nothing else it will have one heck of a hollow cavity.
Also, I'm pretty much done with the nit picking, talking, negotiating, with the buying company.
I've managed to get a pretty good deal working from home doing what I've been doing at the company, same pay, etc.
I may be asked to visit and train in some of the company manufacturing organizations in Bolivia and South Africa, maybe others I don't even know of yet, I'm not crazy about that but compromise, compromise. I'm fortunate they need me and are resonable.

I know I'm the *** around here, but I've read every single post in this thread at one sitting and, I have to tell you, skills like yours just don't fall out of the sky. Extremely impressed.

In "The Before Time", when I was active duty we were holed up near an artillery unit for the night. I think it was 6/11th FA. Anyways, they would fire these huge 198's... towed cannon... and they would shake the ground. One thing I noticed was that those big shells would scream like a banshee across the sky.

Curious, a couple of us drove over to the FA unit and walked up to one of the gun crews and asked them directly- why are your shells so danged loud? They all sort of looked at each other sideways, and then told us why.

Seems "someone" would insert a dime between the fuse and the shell body while the fuse was being screwed in. The dime would stick out between halfway and 1/3 of the way and, when the shell was fired, would create this whistling/screaming sound as it went downrange.

An alternate method was that "someone" would take an old fashioned safety razor blade and tape it to the nose of the shell, so that air could pass under it. When that was fired, it whistled like a WWII bomb falling out of the sky.

I guess my point of all this boring stuff is that if you want a projectile to whistle, you don't have to actually make it a whistle. Those big shells were certainly supersonic, so they were well past us by the time we heard the noise... but what a noise! I guess maybe the 'easiest' way to make a bullet literally scream downrange would be to make a projo with a low BC, but have say 3 or 4 small protrusions stick out around the nose of the projo. Having one might throw the bullet off. And I guess the only way to find out if it works is actually firing the thing.

You wouldn't hear it as it goes by, since it would be well past you by the time you heard the whistle... and the protrusions would really mess up the BC, but it would be kind of funny... in an evil sort of way.

Mal

[oldpara]

I know I'm the *** around here, but I've read every single post in this thread at one sitting and, I have to tell you, skills like yours just don't fall out of the sky. Extremely impressed.

In "The Before Time", when I was active duty we were holed up near an artillery unit for the night. I think it was 6/11th FA. Anyways, they would fire these huge 198's... towed cannon... and they would shake the ground. One thing I noticed was that those big shells would scream like a banshee across the sky.

Curious, a couple of us drove over to the FA unit and walked up to one of the gun crews and asked them directly- why are your shells so danged loud? They all sort of looked at each other sideways, and then told us why.

Seems "someone" would insert a dime between the fuse and the shell body while the fuse was being screwed in. The dime would stick out between halfway and 1/3 of the way and, when the shell was fired, would create this whistling/screaming sound as it went downrange.

An alternate method was that "someone" would take an old fashioned safety razor blade and tape it to the nose of the shell, so that air could pass under it. When that was fired, it whistled like a WWII bomb falling out of the sky.

I guess my point of all this boring stuff is that if you want a projectile to whistle, you don't have to actually make it a whistle. Those big shells were certainly supersonic, so they were well past us by the time we heard the noise... but what a noise! I guess maybe the 'easiest' way to make a bullet literally scream downrange would be to make a projo with a low BC, but have say 3 or 4 small protrusions stick out around the nose of the projo. Having one might throw the bullet off. And I guess the only way to find out if it works is actually firing the thing.

You wouldn't hear it as it goes by, since it would be well past you by the time you heard the whistle... and the protrusions would really mess up the BC, but it would be kind of funny... in an evil sort of way.

Mal

Hey, thanks !

I seem to remember calling in arty in a jam.
105's and 8inch mostly, they'd be just a RUSH SH SH SH through the air, great sound. Now the illumination rounds at night were weird. The flare would blow out of the shell and the shell would keep going end over end, Whoop, whoop, whoop...

Anyway, if I stick a couple of little projections on the ogive like dimes


Would give the guys down range marking targets the jitters

[Rangefinder]

It would be tricky to test.
I guess you'd have to make the mold for the spiral bullet and then make another mold with the same profile, drive bands etc, without the spiral and do some testing.
Identical loads, conditions, blah, blah....

Time..... My kingdom for some Time...

This is exactly why I want a soft-serve .311 with the twist of 1:9.5... Something is telling me it would be a frightening boolit at distance.

[Malgus]

Hey, thanks !

I seem to remember calling in arty in a jam.
105's and 8inch mostly, they'd be just a RUSH SH SH SH through the air, great sound. Now the illumination rounds at night were weird. The flare would blow out of the shell and the shell would keep going end over end, Whoop, whoop, whoop...

Anyway, if I stick a couple of little projections on the ogive like dimes


Would give the guys down range marking targets the jitters

Holy **** that's awesome!

The picture in my head was of a boolit something like that, but with 3 or 4 semicircular protrusions half the size of the two shown... workie or no workie? Meh, I'm no boolit designer... Still, I bet those would make a racket on the receiving end.

Some years after the 198 incident, we were pulling security for a bunch of SP guns... 105's I think they were. Anyways, we went over to watch those big'uns fire. One of the neat things I remember is that if you stood behind them in line with the bore (about 150m behind them) and focused above the gun, you could see those big old projos sail downrange... One of us took a picture of it happening, but the projo is just a grey smear in the sky... camera wasn't fast enough.

Oh, oldpara? If I take your name right, you were the generation before us. Much respect. I was A Co. 1/507th PIR.. still got my old stick number around here somewhere...

I had a question about something, and I was wondering if I could run it past you if it wasn't too presumptuous...

Thanks.

Mal

[Garyshome]

Man you have TOOOOOOOOOOOO much Extra time laying around

[oldpara]

Holy **** that's awesome!

The picture in my head was of a boolit something like that, but with 3 or 4 semicircular protrusions half the size of the two shown... workie or no workie? Meh, I'm no boolit designer... Still, I bet those would make a racket on the receiving end.

Some years after the 198 incident, we were pulling security for a bunch of SP guns... 105's I think they were. Anyways, we went over to watch those big'uns fire. One of the neat things I remember is that if you stood behind them in line with the bore (about 150m behind them) and focused above the gun, you could see those big old projos sail downrange... One of us took a picture of it happening, but the projo is just a grey smear in the sky... camera wasn't fast enough.

Oh, oldpara? If I take your name right, you were the generation before us. Much respect. I was A Co. 1/507th PIR.. still got my old stick number around here somewhere...

I had a question about something, and I was wondering if I could run it past you if it wasn't too presumptuous...

Thanks.

Mal

Mal,

Kinda like this ?




Yep, 173rd ABN, walked point eight months, Pleiku, Dak To, central highlands, two corps.
I know what you're talking about, sometimes on some three tube firebase we'd be busting caps on some undesireables coming up the hill.
The motar guys would be firing one bag almost straight up to come down a few yards down the mountain, to make their efforts not worth the effort.
You could track the 81 projo's to the apex and watch them wag their tails as they turned nose down to meet the guests.

Ask away

[Malgus]

Mal,

Kinda like this ?




Yep, 173rd ABN, walked point eight months, Pleiku, Dak To, central highlands, two corps.
I know what you're talking about, sometimes on some three tube firebase we'd be busting caps on some undesireables coming up the hill.
The motar guys would be firing one bag almost straight up to come down a few yards down the mountain, to make their efforts not worth the effort.
You could track the 81 projo's to the apex and watch them wag their tails as they turned nose down to meet the guests.

Ask away

LOL! That... is about as close as we're gonna get, I reckon. Someone firing that would definitely let folks on the receiving end know they ain't wanted....

Okay, the question thing.

You have shown yourself to be a design Jedi, which is why I'm asking... I have a pair of Colt's 3rd Model Dragoons... No, not the real deal. Uberti's. But they do the job well enough.

I have one converted to fire metallic cartridges. Kirst conversion, which is really just an updated version of a Richards-Mason conversion. I'm at the beginning of fabricating an ejector for it since the smithy is backlogged 2 years on custom work, and I got my own skill set. Here's a picture of it right now.



Still needs the cylinder blued, so I won't get to play with it for awhile... but you see this part here where the red arrow is?



That's the loading lever. That needs to go. It has no use on the revolver at this point. Problem: Once that lever is removed, the void where it used to be needs to be filled. Now, I haven't taken a casting of this void - the plan being, make a casting, mike it, then carve a piece of steel to match because that's one of the mounting points for the ejector. Plus, not filling that void would look like, well, the stuff that comes out of the south end of a northbound cow.

It got me to thinkin'. These conversions are common. But not common enough to justify creating a dedicated ejector for them. HOWEVER, that void does have to be filled.

So, if I can make a good casting, do you think you could use your mojo to make "one-a them funny pitchers" that can be fed to any CNC machine? A couple hundred could be cranked out on my dime, saving smithies everywhere hundreds of hours of labor hand-fitting inserts for that void. Could make them a few thou over so each void could be miked, then the insert thrown on the surface grinder and shaved down to fit exactly...

So... does my screwy idea have merit?

Mal

[oldpara]

LOL! That... is about as close as we're gonna get, I reckon. Someone firing that would definitely let folks on the receiving end know they ain't wanted....

Okay, the question thing.

You have shown yourself to be a design Jedi, which is why I'm asking... I have a pair of Colt's 3rd Model Dragoons... No, not the real deal. Uberti's. But they do the job well enough.

I have one converted to fire metallic cartridges. Kirst conversion, which is really just an updated version of a Richards-Mason conversion. I'm at the beginning of fabricating an ejector for it since the smithy is backlogged 2 years on custom work, and I got my own skill set. Here's a picture of it right now.



Still needs the cylinder blued, so I won't get to play with it for awhile... but you see this part here where the red arrow is?



That's the loading lever. That needs to go. It has no use on the revolver at this point. Problem: Once that lever is removed, the void where it used to be needs to be filled. Now, I haven't taken a casting of this void - the plan being, make a casting, mike it, then carve a piece of steel to match because that's one of the mounting points for the ejector. Plus, not filling that void would look like, well, the stuff that comes out of the south end of a northbound cow.

It got me to thinkin'. These conversions are common. But not common enough to justify creating a dedicated ejector for them. HOWEVER, that void does have to be filled.

So, if I can make a good casting, do you think you could use your mojo to make "one-a them funny pitchers" that can be fed to any CNC machine? A couple hundred could be cranked out on my dime, saving smithies everywhere hundreds of hours of labor hand-fitting inserts for that void. Could make them a few thou over so each void could be miked, then the insert thrown on the surface grinder and shaved down to fit exactly...

So... does my screwy idea have merit?

Mal

Mal, the idea is fine, my obstacle here is TIME.
If I had the time I would consider it a fun/worthwhile project.

I CAN model the part based on your sketch/drawing and send you the file. That won't fill the hole but it may get you part way there. I assume you would want these made of Brass or steel, basically roughed out for hand finishing.
Looking at the images at 6AM I'm not getting the actual shape of the part (too early).
I know this sounds quick and dirty but a cast part made of a hard lead based alloy, even a copper based babbit might serve as well if it's just a "filler" and not a functional part. Easy to hand work and if you mess up cast another.

After the end of June I'll know better what I can and can't do.
I've had many people ask if I can make this or that, from molds, to pieces like yours, to motorcycle parts, you name it.
I'd love to but I don't want to get involved with something and not be able to finish.

[goofyoldfart]

Dana: My Lord, I am awestruck with your abilities. You, Sir, are an Artist!!!!! I read the whole sticky (all 19 pages) of it in one sitting. I, also, am a Nam Vet--4 tours. My hat is off to you. God Bless you and yours.

Goofy <aka goofoldfart,GOF or Godfrey>

[oldpara]

Dana: My Lord, I am awestruck with your abilities. You, Sir, are an Artist!!!!! I read the whole sticky (all 19 pages) of it in one sitting. I, also, am a Nam Vet--4 tours. My hat is off to you. God Bless you and yours.

Goofy <aka goofoldfart,GOF or Godfrey>

Thankyou Brother.
Keeps me sane (ish).

Welcome Home.

[Malgus]

Mal, the idea is fine, my obstacle here is TIME.
If I had the time I would consider it a fun/worthwhile project.

I CAN model the part based on your sketch/drawing and send you the file. That won't fill the hole but it may get you part way there. I assume you would want these made of Brass or steel, basically roughed out for hand finishing.
Looking at the images at 6AM I'm not getting the actual shape of the part (too early).
I know this sounds quick and dirty but a cast part made of a hard lead based alloy, even a copper based babbit might serve as well if it's just a "filler" and not a functional part. Easy to hand work and if you mess up cast another.

After the end of June I'll know better what I can and can't do.
I've had many people ask if I can make this or that, from molds, to pieces like yours, to motorcycle parts, you name it.
I'd love to but I don't want to get involved with something and not be able to finish.

I completely understand. No harm, no foul. Time crunches stink... especially when you want to do so much. I'll just get to carving and do it the old way. It's not that big a deal.. I remember the first thing I was assigned to do as a smithy in training... I was given a small cube of steel, a steel plate about 2x2 with a 1/4" hole in the middle and a file. I had to file the cube into a 1/4" sphere so that it would fit through the hole... if I can do that, I can do this, no problem.

That cut seems to have been done with some type of circular cutter. The bottom of the void has a radius.

I'll make a casting of the void with acraglass. Clog the holes with modeling clay and make a dam. Shoot some release agent in there and fill er up... whatever pops out, I'll just dupe that in steel.

Maybe some ways down the road you'll get some wiggle room. Thanks much.

Mal

[oldpara]

Manufacturing stops on the 10th, an online auction on the 13th, cleanup, and gone...
So I'm negotiating like a crazy person.


Anyway here's the latest stuff:





130gr 6.5mm phillips, 220gr .316, 220gr .316 shaped like a rifle cartridge, and a 240gr .316 shaped like a pistol cartridge.

[taco650]

More cool looking boolits from old para! What size gas check did you put on the .316's?

[oldpara]

More cool looking boolits from old para! What size gas check did you put on the .316's?

Those are Hornady 30 cal gas checks. They fit fine and when I size to .314 the gas check is crimped on there nicely.

[GunFun]

More cool stuff.

[trying2learn]

Yet again it's so impressive.

[no34570]

Manufacturing stops on the 10th, an online auction on the 13th, cleanup, and gone...
So I'm negotiating like a crazy person.


Anyway here's the latest stuff:





130gr 6.5mm phillips, 220gr .316, 220gr .316 shaped like a rifle cartridge, and a 240gr .316 shaped like a pistol cartridge.

I have said it before and I'll say it again,you do bloody awesome work
Love this site!!!

[MTtimberline]

I was thinking that the external torx socket look would make an interesting HP design. It could be an alternative to the penta HP that might actually work.

[MTtimberline]

I meant that the torx might actually work for a HP. I did not mean to imply that the penta won't work or that the penta is a bad design in any way.