phillips head anyone ?

[GunFun]

Yes. that is it almost exactly.
You are amazing. I envy your talent and resources.

I suspect the nose profile of your last green drawing would work the best. so I mangled it a bit to show a change I think would help with opening in soft tissue. I think the metal insert needs to be rounded on the bottom so that it does not dig into the lead. However, if the alteration to the releif I have drawn is done, that downward force could still do the job.

I also think that I put the hinge cut too high in relation to the internal cavity's taper. You basically filled it in how I had drawb it, but after I posted those up I realized a design flaw I made. From that same drawing, if the internal taper (and thus down and outwards force) starts at . 0281, That force should have an escape lower at aproximately 45* or maybe steeper. Thus, I think the line that is shown at

Here is an atrocity committed against one of your drawings, but the same shift in the hinge line relative to the cavity could be done to any of them.https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
I suspect actual force would be much more vertical than the red line I drew, but it was too late to fix that.


The second individual drawing with the crimp groove as pivot point might be altered by moving the grease groove upward to function as the pivot and keeping the crimp ring where it is. That might be my favorite of them. It has more mass in the petals, which could make a good varmint bomb type effect at very high velocity on soft things.

P.S. Love the line about fruitcake. Maybe we could add UHMW rod or similar to the list. it could be cut square with a razor knife guillotine jig.

I really hope your job lasts long enough for you to make one of these. This would be a blast to develop. I think it would work better with a harder alloy.

[oldpara]

Yes. that is it almost exactly.
You are amazing. I envy your talent and resources.

I suspect the nose profile of your last green drawing would work the best. so I mangled it a bit to show a change I think would help with opening in soft tissue. I think the metal insert needs to be rounded on the bottom so that it does not dig into the lead. However, if the alteration to the releif I have drawn is done, that downward force could still do the job.

I also think that I put the hinge cut too high in relation to the internal cavity's taper. You basically filled it in how I had drawb it, but after I posted those up I realized a design flaw I made. From that same drawing, if the internal taper (and thus down and outwards force) starts at . 0281, That force should have an escape lower at aproximately 45* or maybe steeper. Thus, I think the line that is shown at

Here is an atrocity committed against one of your drawings, but the same shift in the hinge line relative to the cavity could be done to any of them.https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
I suspect actual force would be much more vertical than the red line I drew, but it was too late to fix that.


The second individual drawing with the crimp groove as pivot point might be altered by moving the grease groove upward to function as the pivot and keeping the crimp ring where it is. That might be my favorite of them. It has more mass in the petals, which could make a good varmint bomb type effect at very high velocity on soft things.

P.S. Love the line about fruitcake. Maybe we could add UHMW rod or similar to the list. it could be cut square with a razor knife guillotine jig.

I really hope your job lasts long enough for you to make one of these. This would be a blast to develop. I think it would work better with a harder alloy.

OK, Here's the latest.
Sometimes it takes time.

The job ?......... Mid, maybe end of June, that's it, lights out, good nite nurse.



Gas check

[GunFun]

Perfect. The gas check version makes the most sense to me, since this is intended to be an unusually versatile max load for hiking in country with mixed dangerous game and small predators. I believe in the concept. The problem will be that it could require a bunch of trial and error to tune the balance between forcing closed and blasting open.

There are so many variables that would need a good mechanism to control:


+You would need 2-3 stages of test media to simulate thick skinned dangerous mid size game such as black bear and hogs
mid size predators such as large cougars and wolves
smaller predators such as small cougars and coyotes (These last two could be tested as a compromise, but you would have to decide whether your goal is to have the petals lock open and stay attached or separate in a conical pattern like DDupleks. If compromise is desired, I would prefer them to stay attached. Ideal would be a ductile alloy with a thick enough hinge that they open about 45* on medium flesh/hide and complete separation on very soft thin hide. )

+Lead hardness control and a way to confirm it.

+Testing at various velocities, and obviously a good chronograph.

+ finding the right material and depth of the insert. At this moment, plastic rod sounds best to me. It works for the pros... It is firm enough to prevent closing too much and disintegrating.

I am confident that if someone were to put the time in, we would have an amazing projectile.
Perhaps one way to narrow the workload of development would be to fix the velocity as though it were a keith slug of that weight and find a near max load velocity. keep the insert short enough that it stays closed in dense media. Extend the insert until it opens up. that will find the cross over point. If it still doesn't open properly, use a chamfer tool to "countersink" the mouth of the cavity to apply more outward force... Subsequent molds could be made with a larger or smaller diameter cavity to achieve the same thing.

.44 Mag is probably the most sensible host for this, but for some reason I like the idea of stretching a .357 into 44 mag territory.

Thanks for playing along. It is really fun to collaborate with someone who plainly has a great deal of experience and skill and is still willing to put work and thought into indulging the musings of an amateur and a newbie.

------------------
I am sorry to hear about the job. That is always a sad thing. I hope you have a good place to go next.

[oldpara]

Perfect. The gas check version makes the most sense to me, since this is intended to be an unusually versatile max load for hiking in country with mixed dangerous game and small predators. I believe in the concept. The problem will be that it could require a bunch of trial and error to tune the balance between forcing closed and blasting open.

There are so many variables that would need a good mechanism to control:


+You would need 2-3 stages of test media to simulate thick skinned dangerous mid size game such as black bear and hogs
mid size predators such as large cougars and wolves
smaller predators such as small cougars and coyotes (These last two could be tested as a compromise, but you would have to decide whether your goal is to have the petals lock open and stay attached or separate in a conical pattern like DDupleks. If compromise is desired, I would prefer them to stay attached. Ideal would be a ductile alloy with a thick enough hinge that they open about 45* on medium flesh/hide and complete separation on very soft thin hide. )

+Lead hardness control and a way to confirm it.

+Testing at various velocities, and obviously a good chronograph.

+ finding the right material and depth of the insert. At this moment, plastic rod sounds best to me. It works for the pros... It is firm enough to prevent closing too much and disintegrating.

I am confident that if someone were to put the time in, we would have an amazing projectile.
Perhaps one way to narrow the workload of development would be to fix the velocity as though it were a keith slug of that weight and find a near max load velocity. keep the insert short enough that it stays closed in dense media. Extend the insert until it opens up. that will find the cross over point. If it still doesn't open properly, use a chamfer tool to "countersink" the mouth of the cavity to apply more outward force... Subsequent molds could be made with a larger or smaller diameter cavity to achieve the same thing.

.44 Mag is probably the most sensible host for this, but for some reason I like the idea of stretching a .357 into 44 mag territory.

Thanks for playing along. It is really fun to collaborate with someone who plainly has a great deal of experience and skill and is still willing to put work and thought into indulging the musings of an amateur and a newbie.

------------------
I am sorry to hear about the job. That is always a sad thing. I hope you have a good place to go next.

I agree with what you're saying.
There are a lot of variables to work through , but it does start with that first idea.
I'm happy to at the very least get the idea from the imagination to something virtually soild, and an image that perhaps can be later developed and refined.
If you would like the files I have on this project I can send them to you.
I'm happy to go as far as I can to help anyone with an idea that they feel strongly about, or just a whimsical wandering of the imagination.
If I'm in the position in the future to help you flesh it out, I will. Looks like an interesting project.

[GunFun]

Thank you very much. I'll send you a PM with my personal contact info.

My brother has a hobby grade 3 axis CNC, and one of my uncles has a few hobby lathes. Another uncle has a full machine shop with WWII era machinery, so I doubt it can do these fancy shapes.

This is more than a whim. I believe this would make an amazing bullet. If I got one dialed in, I think I would try to get someone to cut a 4 banger with actuating HP pins like MI-Hec does. It might be a couple years before I have the cash for it, but that would be a lifetime mold. Plus it could be shot as a plinker just skipping the insert step.

[oldpara]

Thank you very much. I'll send you a PM with my personal contact info.

My brother has a hobby grade 3 axis CNC, and one of my uncles has a few hobby lathes. Another uncle has a full machine shop with WWII era machinery, so I doubt it can do these fancy shapes.

This is more than a whim. I believe this would make an amazing bullet. If I got one dialed in, I think I would try to get someone to cut a 4 banger with actuating HP pins like MI-Hec does. It might be a couple years before I have the cash for it, but that would be a lifetime mold. Plus it could be shot as a plinker just skipping the insert step.

I can send you a "CL" file, a cutter location file for a cnc program.
Your brother would have to post process that file for a cnc GM program he could use on his cnc.
I could also send you a cnc G&M program file, but your brother would have to walk the program thru on his machine, his controller might interperate the file badly or not at all.
I'll send you whatever you might need it's your idea, your files.

[oldpara]

Finished four more, three are pretty conventional but one is somewhat squirrly.

This one is a double cavity. Both are .359 155gr, one has a square grease groove, the other a round grease groove.
See which one is better.





This one is something I did to repair/re use the mold I had cut with the swirl type/softserve bullet that didn't work out.
.316 200gr.


And this one is supposed to look like part of a pencil with the eraser.
.316 180gr.




I've got a three cavity cutting over the weekend for three different bullets for the 32 mag.
I can' remember the weights off he top but their normal for that caliber 100gr and 115gr I think.


I also finished this one, the pencil sharpener but havn't pinned it and brought it home.

It looks like it's going to be a booger to get out of the mold so we'll see.

Wish I had more time...

[GunFun]

Pretty cool.

Sad that the spiral fluted mold didn't work out, but the straight fluting one is better looking to my eye anyway.

I like your practical molds too.

PS. I sent you an email, so let me know if you didn't get it.

The pencil eraser looks more like a cap for a tire valve to my eye. That's what I thought it was.

[taco650]

That .316/200gr looks like it would work great in my .303 British. What are the chances....

Nice work as always.

[slim1836]

Might also work in my Mosin Nagant.

Slim

That .316/200gr looks like it would work great in my .303 British. What are the chances....

Nice work as always.

[oldpara]

Pretty cool.

Sad that the spiral fluted mold didn't work out, but the straight fluting one is better looking to my eye anyway.

I like your practical molds too.

PS. I sent you an email, so let me know if you didn't get it.

The pencil eraser looks more like a cap for a tire valve to my eye. That's what I thought it was.

Well, the spiral isn't dead quite yet
I have another program I want to try, but I have to hustle.
Thanks for the like on the traditional stuff, we have to have the practical stuff too.
I haven't recieved any email as of this moment.
Now that you mention it the Eraser does look like a long valve stem cap, so yea it's my eraser/valve stem cap bullet, that's what I meant to say I think.

[oldpara]

Well, it's getting closer and closer to the doors closing on June 24 so I've been as busy as I can be.
Heres those three oversize 30's for the 32mag etc.

They're .316 dia, 90gr in RN and FP, and 110gr in the lee style in lino. Got to be able to use them in the Jap too.
They came out pretty well and drop from the mold fine. I really didn't give the mold enough time to heat up well but you get the idea.




The pencil sharpener look alike is .361 132gr. I made a second half for it because after I cut it it looked like it was going to be a bear to get the bullets out. I was right, quite sticky on the sharpener side but a little push with the small screwdriver tip and it comes out OK. Wouldn't want to cast 500 but it "is what it is".
The solid bullet using the other half is .361 140gr and casts fine.








I'm working on the 30 cal Whistle bullet now, it won't really whistle, it's a solid bullet but maybe at some point I can cobble together a core pin for it, if nothing else it will have one heck of a hollow cavity.
Also, I'm pretty much done with the nit picking, talking, negotiating, with the buying company.
I've managed to get a pretty good deal working from home doing what I've been doing at the company, same pay, etc.
I may be asked to visit and train in some of the company manufacturing organizations in Bolivia and South Africa, maybe others I don't even know of yet, I'm not crazy about that but compromise, compromise. I'm fortunate they need me and are resonable.

[SlippShodd]

I've managed to get a pretty good deal working from home doing what I've been doing at the company, same pay, etc.
I may be asked to visit and train in some of the company manufacturing organizations in Bolivia and South Africa, maybe others I don't even know of yet, I'm not crazy about that but compromise, compromise. I'm fortunate they need me and are resonable.

It's nice to be needed.
We need you too, Dana.

mike

[oldpara]

It's nice to be needed.
We need you too, Dana.

mike

Well , shucks Mike

Thanks, that means alot .
You're good people.

And have I mentioned a great group that keeps me learning everytime I log in.

[mold maker]

To have your talent and lose the means to use it is truly a tragedy. Hope ya can work something out. The compromise is a tough call. If you're not used to foreign travel it is a drastic change. The food and customs are a challenge, to a home body.
I guess you're making haste, while the sun still shines.

[GunFun]

+1

I am sure you will suceed where ever you labor.

[Boneguru]

this was a great browse, I'll admit I wasnt able/willing to read every post.
have you done anything in .458?
I would be willing to buy an attempt in .458 what would be cool and different?
Your work and craftsmanship are outstanding!
Ray

[oldpara]

this was a great browse, I'll admit I wasnt able/willing to read every post.
have you done anything in .458?
I would be willing to buy an attempt in .458 what would be cool and different?
Your work and craftsmanship are outstanding!
Ray

Hi Ray,
I know, it's a long long browse...

Whoa, you mean like big a** mastadon killer 458 ?
Like seventy pounds of recoil, 458 ?
How do you guys shoot those things ?

I'd help you out in a heart beat if I had more time, but the company closes down June 24, and I'm sure the power is disconnected before that.
I could model you something and give you the file, perhaps someone could then cut a custom mold for you.
Any ideas about shape, length, etc ?

[taco650]

It's nice to be needed.
We need you too, Dana.

mike

I'll second that!

[JesterGrin_1]

I always did wonder if you put a twist design in the nose of the bullet that would go along with the twist of the rifle if it would help lessen drop due to more controlled spin and buck the wind better?