Channeling P. O., Mauser blow up project

[copperlake]

Reg, that one story about the 'killing' you made was worth the price of admission alone! I will definitely cut and pasteAttachment 59657 that into my collection of info, thanks.

Here is a pic of the remod on the '96, making a '93 bolt fit. First you take a 100 grit flapper wheel in a 4-1/2" angle grinder and carefully remove the square from under the bolt face. The flapper is perfect because it never runs hot like a stone. The '96 bolt is .075" longer than the '93 and with the exception to the guide rib and internals, is identical in other measurements. That amount I removed from the rear of the bridge so the the lug recesses could be engaged. I did it with a cut-off disc in a die grinder, then dressed with a stone. It only took about 15 mins. to do. Then the bolt shroud channel had to be opened up forward by the same amount. Fortunately, I had a small stone that was the exact size needed. the cocking and firing work like it was designed to do. Interestingly, the bolt does not bind as I thought it would as there is no guide other than the lugs and bolt body.

Mark

[DCM]

Thanks for the input. Believe me, this is a caged animal. The action will be enclosed in a 6" X 6" X 1/4" steel square tube. Stuff can go fore and aft only, I think.

I would recommend either securely closing the rear or not using the tube at all.
I have seen a few guns blow up in person, the parts generally do not go to the rear.
I believe this is intentional by design, as the operator is usually behind the firearm.
If you insist on an open tube please do not get behind it or allow others to do so.

[copperlake]

Dcm, I'm going to do this in my shop, 20'x40'. The tube is for general containment, I can control what goes fore or aft with baffles but I don't want to remove lighting or endanger other equipment, hence the major axis control. Also, the opening to rear is necessary to arm the gun to off safe. I don't want to do that from the business end. I've got a good set up that I've used to 'proof' assemblies. I actuate from an off room removed from the action, so to speak and not to the rear. No one else is ever near unless they are a crank. One of my set-ups uses a wireless actuator, but not this one. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I wish you all could be around when it happens, that would be fun

[jonk]

I think that you are going to be surprised at how much it takes to take one of these apart. Having posted a lengthy discussion about a major handloading oops (case full of 2400 capped by a 200 gr bullet) fired out of a portuguese verguiero- which uses 2 lugs on a mannlicher style bolt, not a solid bolt like you are using here- I can testify that while there was massive lug setback and some cracking of the lug recesses, and estimates of north of 125,000 psi, the thing held together- albeit barely. That with 3 times the original service load pressure for the gun.

I'd wager that you'll have to hit OVER that pressure level to let things come apart, given the solid mauser bolt and gas venting. In point of fact I'm going to further guess that you weld the case to the bolt before you blow up the recievers.

Keep us posted.

[copperlake]

jonk, would you have the link to that 'oops' post? Love to read it. I have no wager in what they will take to let go. I do know that all of the '98's went in the Ackley test. I do have a bias in that I don't think the '96's, on average, are stronger than the '93's. For years I've searched in vain for a picture of a blown up '93. I do have pictures of 2 different '96's blown and almost bought a blown '96 off GunBroker. The owner backed out of the deal and no amount of persuasion would change his mind. He thought there was a liability issue.

I wish I had a 8mm imp. reamer. I want to remove an entire lug and have a go.

[Alan in Vermont]

FWIW and Apples to Oranges but I saw the bolt out of a modern sporter rifle chambered in 7mm Mag. The owner had used 4831 data but got his numbers mixed up and loaded the rounds with 3031. It took several shots, which he noted as kicking a lot more than normal. The denouemont was that the last round fired had pressure enough to lock the bolt.

It took a gunsmith with action wrench and barrel vise to get the bolt open, he unscrewed the barrel off the swollen case. The case head had flowed into any irregularity in the bolt face and was virtually fused there. The gun did not blow up and, as far as I know, the shooter was not injured. I don't remember whether it was a Remington or Savage but it certainly had a fair measure of reserve built in.

Whenever the early "modern" Rem. bolt guns came out (721 ?) the NRA tested one to see how much hot supper it could digest. They started with a proof cartridge with no results. Then they began driving additional bullets into the barrel. The gun fired, and the bolt opened, until they got either 3 or 4 220 gr. bullets lodged in the bore ahead of the proof cartridge. I'm 99% sure it was four in the bore plus the one in the round. 1100 grains ahead of a proof load and all it did was freeze the bolt. I used to have the American Rifleman that had the article about the test but loaned it to a friend several years ago and it never came home.

[376Steyr]

Extractor just used to hold the 45 ACP long enough for the firing pin to whack it. I suppose you could wrap some tape around the cartridge to hold it in place.

376Steyr, excuse me but I'm not quite following you here. As a note, I'm not going to waste an extractor, fired rounds will be rodded out from the muzzle.

[jonk]

jonk, would you have the link to that 'oops' post? Love to read it. I have no wager in what they will take to let go. I do know that all of the '98's went in the Ackley test. I do have a bias in that I don't think the '96's, on average, are stronger than the '93's. For years I've searched in vain for a picture of a blown up '93. I do have pictures of 2 different '96's blown and almost bought a blown '96 off GunBroker. The owner backed out of the deal and no amount of persuasion would change his mind. He thought there was a liability issue.

I wish I had a 8mm imp. reamer. I want to remove an entire lug and have a go.

Here's the link... hanging my head in shame still. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ight=verguiero

[izzyjoe]

this is very a interesting thread, i'll stay tuned in to see what happens. i wish Larry could be involved in this, cause i'm curious too of the pressures those actions will take.

[copperlake]

One of the problems I'm having is coming up with some loads. I've done some research into the Powely Computer and even went to an on-line version of it but can't make it do what I want. If I understand correctly, the on-line calculator 'guides' you to safe loads. Hardly what I'm trying to do. Does anyone that's tuned in have the original computer? Not knowing, perhaps it too, would not be useful.

[johnnybar]

I would add that if pieces of brass or steel do depart from their origins, it would be nice to have them intact in as much of the same condition as they departed from the "whammy". In addition to the craft paper, I suggest that you add Celotex or fiber sheathing to the inside of the steel tube for an impact buffer. This will preserve blown pieces much better than having them impact the 1/4" steel and is relatively cheap. I would also add a square piece to the rear with a notch in the edge or a small hole drilled for the actuator or string. This will catch any possible rearward small pieces. The sheathing could easily be removed each shot and gone over with a metal detector, then replaced. As a final suggestion, sandbag the whole thing, 1 or 2 bags thick on all four long sides, 2 or 3 on the rear, and 1 to 2 feet from the front of the tube with a good 2 to 3 feet thick barricade of sand bags. Sand will not cause ricochets and is excellent at buffering high velocity impact. The only reason not to sandbag would be to measure your record javeline, I mean barrel, throw.

[copperlake]

Well it's awhile since anything has been added, I've been distracted with other things but there is some progress. As a matter of fact, I'm about ready to do some preliminary tests. Here are some pics of the nearly completed test tube, so to speak. All I have to do is cut a slot in the backstop for the triggering mechanism. As I've stated before I'm paranoid about closing the bolt on a hand grenade so I'm working on a pneumatic actuator that does away with all of the cocking mechanism other than the firing pin, bolt shroud and cocking piece. Unless there is another stray asteroid in the wings, it will be fool proof. Realizing, full well, there is no such thing. The first rounds are going to be tame just to test the system and this I'll do with the regulation parts, and, a Kevlar glove. Attachment 61479Attachment 61478

[WILCO]

What's the need for this?

[WILCO]

What's the need for this?

Disregard above post. I read the O.P. and understand.

[357maximum]

I love small ring mausers and I want to see where this goes........attaboy.

I have a sported 1916 spanish 308 and while I am not afraid of it...I also respect it's vintage...they make great "hot 30/30" cast boolit guns in my book. Have several others too, so although I cannot really offer anything to this thread...I will just show my support from the cheerleader area.......go forth...i am waiting and wish I could be there.

[Frank46]

In the interest of your safety please consider using a string or even a camera remote cable type device in firing. Kevlar glove may be good for preventing getting cut by a knife but would not want you to get hurt during your tests. Frank

[copperlake]

In the interest of your safety please consider using a string or even a camera remote cable type device in firing. Kevlar glove may be good for preventing getting cut by a knife but would not want you to get hurt during your tests. Frank

Frank, I wasn't clear. The glove is just to close the action. A sting will actuate, I'll be in a separate room with a 6" wall (1-1/8" OSB covering). When I do really hot loads they will be set off by a pneumatically powered ball-bearing that strikes the cocking piece so there is nothing 'cocked' before firing, in other words it's all inert until ready. I still have to build that device.

[copperlake]

I love small ring mausers and I want to see where this goes........attaboy.

357, thanks for the support. I love 'em too.

BTW, as a general note if any reader has a junk '89-'96 action they would like to sell, please let me know. Most of the junk I've picked up has been on GunBroker., some I paid too much for especially the three Swede's.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I will sure stay tuned more often again. Have one of the 96's Israel rebarreled to .308. Actually bought 4 at once and two are still in the family. Never did any research to see if the Israeli forces ever had any problems. I do know I never have. I use more 180 gr gc boolits than anything else but numrerous rounds of ex military have been fired.
Mike in Peru

[EDG]

Rather than just an outright blow up of the actions a torture test would be more educational.
Given that you are going to use the 8X57 it will be easy to reload the test rounds.

To just over load an action is easy to do. Blowing it up with some idiotic load is more like a 4th of July firecracker experiment - that is totally out side the realm of what might really happen in real life.

My suggestion is to use military ball bullets and 3031 powder.
Load until you just blow a primer. A blown primer is the first indisputable evidence of an overload.
Once you get blown primers duplicate that load and see how many blown primer rounds the action will take.
If it takes 30 or 40 loads and does not set back you know it was safe for any reasonable use.

After torture testing you can boost loads however you wish to destroy it.