Channeling P. O., Mauser blow up project

[copperlake]

Today, I received the long awaited Mausers and was rather surprised with what arrived. I was expecting marginally serviceable junk but I caught a really good deal instead. Only one of the 10 would not allow a bolt to close and only one of them had been drilled for mounts and that was on the bridge only. To make it even more sweet, two are 1943 Husqvarnas and on top of that, one appears to never have been fired, or little fired, judging by the complete lack of polish on the locking lug recesses. It also has had the bridge lowered by milling but all the others have had a more or less horrific encounter with a belt sander, unfortunately. These actions come from a fellow that bought everything from the first Kimber bankruptcy. Frankly, I'm ecstatic; even a blind squirrel gets a spruce cone now and again, I guess.

The good news is that in the pile there are three, perhaps four actions that I would not use as the basis for a build. One is a CG that is slightly crushed and has a small crack in the right lug race. Two other CG's have setback in the locking lug recesses and the third, unfortunately an Oberndorf, that has had the bridge really destroyed. You would never be able to put a scope on it without an epoxy build up.

So here we are. I'm going to spend some time re-reading it all to select a good starting point. I certainly encourage any input.

[EDG]

Copperlake
The Oberndorf could be salvaged by making a square bridge and having it tigged on by a really good tig guy.

[copperlake]

First, thanks EDG, for the good advice.

Second, I have a line on some surplus boolits pulled from 8mm Lebel. They are 230 gr which makes getting higher pressures easier but if what I find on the intertubes is correct, they are 8.3mm in diameter. The seller does not trust his calipers but says they measure .325-.326". Does anyone have any information or reason that they would not be good to use? I can (or anyone else) get them off GunBroker for 25 cents apiece.

[EDG]

Apparently those are Balle N bullets and are supposed to weigh 15 grams or 232 grains.
If they are not all used up in your testing they may not be usable unless you have a French rifle with the right twist.

[DCM]

I am still willing to help out with pressure estimates, please let us know if you get the pressure trace also I have been thinking about it for some time.

[copperlake]

Been around the block on other projects for quite awhile. I've let this experiment lay fallow but I've been thinking about restarting it lately. One aspect that has been missing is actual pressure readings to give it all more meaning. So, I ask Larry Gibson or anyone else for some advice on what gear that would be most economical to purchase and use and maybe have a resale value (this is not my lifes work) in order to carry on. The one Co. I find is Recreational Software, that has a product called Pressure Trace II. They have a complete setup for 750 bucks. If I could recover half that in the end it would affect my choice.

Any knowledge of any DUI avenues?

Off topic and for entertainment value to you hunters: I just got back from the moose hunt. My hunting partner and I try as best we can to have the 'shooter' (the guy who didn't get a moose last) get as much prime hunting time as possible. Well, my pard got a nice 62" that had more fat on him than we've ever seen. In the 35+ years we've hunted together he's gotten two animals over 60" and me not a one. Well, the next morning as we are having a good artery clogging breakfast (eat, drink, and be merry, especially on a moose hunt) here swims one of the larger bulls I've ever seen across the lake 100 yds below camp; probably 65" or so. Raised my gun and said "bang!" We just don't eat as much as we used to. I got my silly ego milestone and the fellow lived too! There are parts about getting old that are grand. Magnificent animal, he was.

[DCM]

Very pleasant surprise to see this!

Oddly I just got the pressure trace II working, haven't got much use out of it though, but I am hoping to do so soon and will keep you updated.

No firsthand knowledge of DUIs was thinkin bout a DIY with a strain gauge.
Gotta be a way but will it really be cost/time effective? Not sure.

Great hunting story too.

[copperlake]

DCM, great that you have the Trace so I'll be bugging you about some details. The first thing I'm interested in doing is repeating some of experiments that Ackley did in 'Shooters and Reloaders' with forcing oversized boolits down bores in style if not in caliber. I was really surprised with what happened when I put the '06 (.308) pills down the Carcano (.300) bore. Not to mention that being followed by the .35 Rem! The parlor trick that it was, I really would like to have seen the pressure curves of that episode.

This whole chase for me was inspired by Ackley tantalizingly suggesting that he would continue both the testing of other actions AND the mismatched bore thing. Search as I may, I cannot find any published evidence that he did.

I have to do the math to see if a .308 WIN reamer, which I have, will clean up the 7.35 Carcano without having to set the barrel back too far. Then, I'd rent a .358 WIN reamer to do the full Monte. Better yet, perhaps, would be to start with the 6.5 barrel. .358" - .264" = .094" now that would be interesting!

As a side note, I was shocked to see how many people have tuned into this thread after paying no attention for so long. I'm always surprised at what others find worthy of a look-see.

[EDG]

I think there is an audience waiting for the next installment. I discovered about 50 bullets from 8X56R ammo. They are .330 diameter and are long heavy boat tails. They are yours if you need them.

[backbencher]

copperlake, EDG, and DCM, just wanted to let you know you recruited me to CastBoolits. I'd heard good things of this board before, but this is a truly beautiful thread. I've a Chileno, and was a bit hesitant to build anything on it, but this thread is quite an eye opener. The velocities involved must be in the upper 3000s?

[DCM]

Backbencher glad you joined us. Please keep in mind this is informational only and your receiver is likely different than those tested here.

Copperlake PM sent.

[backbencher]

Don't worry, not going to start cramming 300 grn 7mm bullets into my Chileno, this thread just gives me a bit more confidence in some of the earlier stuff.

[backbencher]

An interesting overpressure experiment in an AR-15; fortunately the shooter is safe:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/167...nally_Out.html

[CaptainCrossman]

old thread but worth reviving

interesting, but work like this can become like re-inventing the wheel. it's a well known fact the M98 is stronger than an M93 or M95, so why bother testing the weaker actions ? it's a lot of time, resources, and some money to find out what we already know. interesting, but not really breaking new ground.

rest assured if you read something written by a guy like Ackley, there's not too much one can add to it. those old timers knew their onions. he more or less had it all covered already. it's a lot easier to just buy the Ackley book, read it, and commit it to memory- rather than re-perform all the tests. I'd rather spend the time building rifles on the stronger M98, and sell them, at least it would be profitable. but to each his own, because....

having said that, I understand the curiosity standpoint. about 5 years ago I got interested in American made early Mosin rifles, i.e. Remington and Westinghouse, and bought 5 of them for cheap money over the years, at gun shows and gun shops. 4 of them were Remington made, and one was a Westinghouse. 2 of the Rems were BANNERMAN 30-06 conversions. everything on the net about the Bannermans says DANGER DANGER THEY CAN BLOW UP IN YOUR FACE, etc.

that just didn't sound right to me, knowing how strong an American made Mosin is. truth be told the USA made the best Mosins during the WWI era. we had better metallurgy and machining tolerances than Russia ever had back then.

so I tied one of the Bannermans to the range bench with a rope, and tied a string to the trigger, and loaded the magazine up with milsurp 30-06 FMJ ammo, and ran a few mags full through it. all the ammo had some corrosion and had to be hand cleaned first, to remove it. this was done with coarse grade scotchbrite.

I stood behind a huge oak tree while pulling the trigger string, thought for sure at least some of that old corroded ammo would burst inside the gun, but none did. the gun functioned perfectly.

instead, all it did was swell the brass- albeit very slightly- at the base of the cartridge, just above the case head. only a few thousandths at that, and nothing to worry about. I brought along dial calipers and measured the case heads. also set up a camera on a tripod, and took video of the gun while firing it, and held each case up to the camera to show it was undamaged.

suffice to say, there is NO DANGER firing a 30-06 Bannerman converted Mosin sporter. as long as it's new ammo and not heavily reworked and stretched by resizing it many times. again let me restate and stress that- NEW FRESH AMMO ONLY IN A BANNERMAN is safe. the brass is the seal, as long as it's new, you are safe IMHO, according to all the tests I did. a small portion of the base of the case near the case head is exposed when firing in the gun, but the brass is very thick there, and it won't rupture. quite a few other factory built rifles don't completely cover the case with steel too, when a round is chambered. they rely on the brass near the case head, to contain the pressure.

[Frank46]

If I remember right the old 8mm lebel bullets were made out of solid bronze or similar metal and if you check out the base you will see either a letter or number stamped on the flat of the boatail. I was given a few that had really badly corroded cases and only the bullets were salvageable. had to use a magnifiying glass to check out the base. So if I'm right a solid bullet should be really something for your tests. Frank

[davidheart]

I just read this whole thread..... why is this not stickied??

[oneeyedpete]

So, whatever happened with this thread??????????????? When we last left our intrepid hero, he had just received a "pile o' Mausers" and was gooing to continue testing..................

[444ttd]

i have just got reading this old thread too. it should be a sticky!!!!!!!

i have two 93 oviedo spanish mausers that need sporterized. i want to build a 7x57 and 257 roberts in a douglas or green mountain barrels. i have already done(my son's 93) a dayton trigger set, bent bolt handle, 2 position safety and d&t for a scope mount. i have a richard's microfit wolverine gunstock that i have to sand and finish. then i'll have rebarrel it to 7x57. the mausers were made in the 1920s(i have to check, but its 1924? and 1926?). the roberts is after the 1898 spr armory(2 actions without bolt/ 1 needs sporterized and rust be gone). its nice to know that someone appreciates the 93 oviedo's.