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Thread: 22 tcm

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy sharpshooter3040's Avatar
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    Making the dies:

    Use a Lee 221 Fireball dies. Counter drill .404 dia. to shoulder and no deeper (straight wall no taper you are making a neck sizer) Br very careful not to damage the shoulder. Face off die so length from shoulder to shell holder is .612 or slightly longer. Now face off seater die so length of shell plus shell holder engages the crimp shoulder.


    Making Brass

    1) cut of .223 rem case to 1.075 with tubing cutter and chamfer case inside and out.
    2) Anneal 3/8" of the case mouth
    3) Use Imperial sizing die wax for lube
    4) Full length re size cut off case in a 22 jet full length re sizer all the way to the shell holder
    5) Full length size to form shoulder and case neck in the modified 221 fireball die. the case should now start to look like a 22 TCM. Case neck after forming is around .018 thick trim to length (1.025) outside turn neck to .015 (.012 min .015 max)case should fall into chamber easily. load and fire form. max oal length 1.257 to fit magazine. use 225107 cast boolit on top of 9.1 grains of accurate #7 i used a rem small rifle primer.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    sharpshooter3040:

    I modified an old cheap 222 REM size die, much in the same manner you did the 221 die. However, I am using it to neck size and just bump the shoulder back enough for reliable chambering and using a 223 SB die for the body. So far it is working very nicely. I have a 218 BEE, LEE factory crimp die which I will modify for this round. I have already altered a 22 Hornet for an acquaintance to use for his FN 5.7 ammo. The conversion is easy and works great. (By the way, from what I can tell so far, the 5.7 is going to come up short on virtually every level when compared to the TCM). That comment should light a few fires. I would have used a 221 FCD but the BEE die was handy and quite a bit cheaper so since it still has to be modified anyway, that is the way I chose to go.

    I did not need to make brass since I made a pretty good buy of ammo while it was available and reasonably priced. However, having the option of making brass from something so readily available is a real plus.

    Thank you for the load information. The only other thing I have seen is with H-110. I am very glad to hear the 225107 is working well for you. I have a mold on order in the current group buy. Is your bullet PB or GC?
    I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people. I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem work itself out.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    Found a site with some more info on reloading this to share. There is some talk on AR15.com on this I will link to as well.

    http://www.keystoneweapon.com/Keysto.../10_22TCM.html

    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/39...reloading.html

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    The 5.7 might be ballistically "inferior" to the tcm but it holds 20 or 30 rounds in a tight and small blowback package. It also has a variety of projectiles to chose from

  5. #25
    Boolit Master Plinkster's Avatar
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    This is a way cool cartridge in my opinion and even cooler with the option of a rifle in the same caliber. Too bad it's not a lever action or a semi auto, that'd be a serious hoot!
    Is this a......what day is this??

  6. #26
    Boolit Master

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    Honestly, I think of it as a rimless 22 hornet. The nice draw is being able to use your 223/5.56 or 300 blackout brass that may have a badly dinged neck, or neck split for forming this round. I wish it garnered more attention, and pressure to make it SAMI.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master

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    Dies back in stock!

    http://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/p...M-Armscor.html

    Well, never-mind. Although they have the page up again you cannot put any in your cart.
    Last edited by xacex; 03-27-2013 at 01:54 AM.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Yes many of us would be interested in the process. As far as the new cartridge goes read about it in GUNS area months back been looking for one since. Found one but the finance department said no. As in I am broke.

  9. #29
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by roysha View Post
    xacex:
    I had contacted LEE directly as well as Craig. None available and with demand for "regular" stuff so high, it was going to be a while. Contacted HOR and they wanted $170 plus an up to 6 month wait from their custom shop. Before I do that I'll order a size die reamer from MANSON and make my own, plus, perhaps sell a couple to help pay for the reamer.

    Brushing:
    Where did you get your data?
    About all I have been able to find is 10 grains of H-110.
    I was thinking about trying to convert a 9mm AR to accept this round but it just doesn't seem to want to fit the 9mm AR mags very well. Perhaps it is just my mags.
    Sorry for the delay in responding. I don't get over here too often. I got the load data from Fred Craig. I also got a bunch of brass and bullets from him as well. Of course, that was back in the fall before total insanity hit the market place.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master

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    It wasn't as easy as I thought but it works great. The 38 Super is a simi-rimmed case and would not work with my 22TCM slide. I bought a new 38 Super slide, barrel, link, firing pin & stop & spring,recoil spring, bushing and extractor. I got everything direct from Armscor for about $250 shipped. The new slide fits the 22TCM frame and works perfectly. The magazines work great also, now I can have a highcap 38 Super just by switching slides. I already had a slide stop, spring cap and guide rod to make the slide complete.
    Quote Originally Posted by rond View Post
    38 Super fits in the magazine and the 38 Super barrel drops right in, will try it as soon as I can get time to go shoot.

  11. #31
    Boolit Mold
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    I have tried to order reamer from Clymer and this is the reply:

    Sorry, proprietary to ARMSCOR….

    Thank you for your interest and we look forward to hearing from you soon.

    Best regards,

    CLYMER Precision Staff
    1605 W. Hamlin Rd.
    Rochester Hills, MI 48309
    ph: 248-853-5555
    fax: 248-853-1530
    www.clymertool.com


    Can you guys shed some light on this... A proprietary cartridge?!? I only want to chamber my own guns and perhaps make a set of dies...

  12. #32
    Boolit Bub
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    Tcm / 22 re

    Hi All,
    I also was interested in doing the TCM but wanted to reload with the same issues. Then I couldn't find an RIA TCM so I called Ron Reed about his Reed Express and got dies and a reamer. I just finished three guns for the 22 Reed Express, which is based on a necked down 7.62x25 Tokarev case. The case is spec'd at .980" which is shorter than the TCM at 1.050" IIRC. I build Tokarev AR conversions so the choice was easy for me. I built a gas operated AR carbine, a blow back operated AR carbine, and an Officer 1911 clone.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I used Quick Design to build the case based on the sized case dimensions and Quick Load for reloading data. This is a very small case so pressures can get out of hand quickly so watch what you are doing and use small rifle primers. Using 10gr of Lil Gun and Hornady 35gr VMax I get 2650 fps out of the blow back and 1750 out of the 4" barreled 1911. Using the 35gr VMax was the only way to get to 1.280" oal. Quick Load predicted the 1911 velocity perfect but is way short on the carbine data by 200+ fps so something is going on that needs to be answered. Pressures are also higher in the carbines as the blow back throws cases 30 feet, but the 1911 will only eject the last round with an extremely shortened recoil spring. Recoil is very mild. My first load of 11gr of Lil Gun chrono'd at an honest 2900 + but the pressures seemed high so I backed everything down. Using a pistol length gas system in the AR gas gun cycled just fine. Ron said bullet selection really affects pressures and he used 45gr for his 1911 stuff. I just dug out a box of 55gr cast GC that are only .510" long that should fit this case perfectly and will do some work on that. I will have to look into the Lee and 225107 dies mentioned above.
    The 22 RE can also be done with .223 brass but is a lot of work, however, the poster with the 223 / Blackout / TCM progression makes a great case for us reloaders !
    I ordered everything from Ron at Reed's Ammunition & Research http://www.reedsammo.com
    The dies are CH4D and the reamer is a PTG. This is definately a fun round, either the TCM or RE. Lets home they get "Blackouted" and us po folk can all enjoy.
    Now to get another set of dies and get this puppy down to 1.169"
    Tim

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    I would hardly call the TCM or the FN 5.7x28 a 22 mag. The five-seven can push a 40 grain vmax @ 1650 or so in 5 inches of barrel. The fact that you can stuff 20 in a comfortably sized pistol is a nice thing in itself although my thinking is that it is rarely needed. Yes, it is blowback and you do need to set the shoulder back when sized, not a chambering for the novice. It will fire out of battery if you don't set the shoulder back (bad idea when operating at 50K. The coating will rub off eventually in the size die, only a problem if you are using P90 or PS90 mags. In the pistol it's a non issue. Clean casings in simple green and water, corn cob and walnut hull media will strip it right off.

    I would like to know what kind of pressure you would have to run to get this kind of performance out of a .22 mag in 5 inches of barrel. My thoughts are it is unobtainable safely.

    If I didn't already own a five-seven the .22 TCM would have my attention w/o a doubt. Looks like lots of fun with all blast and not much recoil.

    Ebner

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    You can push the 40gr to a bit higher. Closer to 1900 I believe. The firing out of battery story was a myth. The guy double charged his case when it blew up.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by khmer6 View Post
    You can push the 40gr to a bit higher. Closer to 1900 I believe. The firing out of battery story was a myth. The guy double charged his case when it blew up.
    The ss197 is around the 1650 mark. Yes, you can load and go higher, elite sells hotter stuff also. As far as the out of battery I went as far as loading a primer w/o setting back the shoulder and it did pop the cap. I do hope you're right as it being a myth. When I tried that experiment .....guess I took it for gospel at that point and didn't care to pursue any deeper.

    Ebner

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Yes the ss197 is SEVERLY underpowered. It can be pushed warmer pretty safe. Ss190 is quite a beast. 192 as well. There was a statement from FN on how much out if batter it can fire which was supposed to be within safe specs. I'm sure straight walled cartridges fire out of battery as well due to chambering issues. None the less, I never had much success with 197. It always shot low and never grouped together consistently. Hand loaded 40gr blue tips solved the issue

  17. #37
    Boolit Man



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    Components , bullets and empty cases are starting to trickle in at Ammo supply warehouse and the promise dies in June
    "The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."

  18. #38
    Boolit Bub
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    22 boolits

    I just ordered 1000 of the 40gr JFN projectiles from ASW and got my 5k of primers in yesterday. Also loaded up some 55gr RNGC to "under 1.275" in my 22 Reed Express cases to see if they would fit.

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    Fit the Uzi and Glock mags
    Had to seat them a bit deeper for the Glock, but the 40gr I have coming should solve that issue.
    Will test them out in the Blowback AR and the 1911 for fit and function and add a Glock barrel to my wish list.....
    Bro said the RNGC is a great bullet but won't kill anything. He's got a custom FNGC he is digging out of the bench he said is awsome...

  19. #39
    Boolit Man



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    CH4D has a batch of 22tcm almost ready to ship. and Ammo Supply Warehouse has promised to have a die set any day now ready to ship, I think they are hornady dies and they tell me they have 500 sets on order. Anyone want to rent me a set? I have gotten several hundred of the original 40 grain jacketed bullets from Ammo Supply along with several hundred empty cases. Now I just need dies and I'll be back in the 22 tcm game. This is a great little caliber and it does have a lot of punch in a small low recoil package, and its cool but that is just an extra bonus.
    "The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."

  20. #40
    Boolit Bub
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    Got my NOE 225107 mold the other day and hope to break it in soon. I got 1000 of the ASW 40 gr JFP Armscore bullets but they are too long to seat deeper than 1.2". Tried my loads of 35, 40, and 55gr bullets and all of them like the 1:12 twist better than the 1:8. Will load up some of my SS109's and see if they work better in the 1:8 barrel.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check