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Thread: 22 tcm

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    22 tcm

    Does anyone here have personal experience with this cartridge? It seems to be ballistically comparable to the 5.7 FN but with much less expensive brass and all the hassle that goes with reloading the 5.7. The only down side that I can see for me, is that I really don't care for the 1911 platform.
    I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people. I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem work itself out.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    texassako's Avatar
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    I have looked into them and some of the alternatives, but not shot them. Others out there are/were .22 Reed Express on a CZ-52, .223 Timbs in the CZ, .224 BOZ wildcat(off a 10mm in a Glock?), and probably other I can't think of. It seems to be a concept that comes and goes occasionally. My interest was more for a Spanish Destroyer bolt action rifle receiver I have laying around, but the RIA .22 TCM with a 9mm barrel to go with it may have to join the stable one day.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    I shot one of the Armscor 1911's a bit and got to play with it. It's a real fireball when you shoot but with hardly any recoil.

    22 TCM is a .223 case shortened and necked down to 45 Auto OAL. There is only one loading a 40 gr JHP. Armscor of the Phillipines makes a double stack 1911 chambered in it that comes with a interchangable 9mm barrel and recoil spring. Factory ammo chrono'd at a legit 2050 fps. FN 5.7 factory ammo is touted as super fast but actually only gets about 1650 fps from a 5-7 handgun.

    22 TCM is limited in OAL so it will fit in the magazine and is stuck using flat tipped JHP bullets meant for 22 WMR. The FN has a much longer OAL and can accomodate pointed plastic tipped bullets.
    There isn't any information out there on the TCM as far as reloading or dies. 5.7 is a CIP cartridge and has reloading data and dies available-HOWEVER, cases are lacquered to function in the blowback actions and the lacquer is readily scraped off by a size die. Also 5.7 guns allow the shoulder to blow out significantly because they are bottleneck blowback. You will be working the shoulder a lot when you resize a 5.7. 22 TCM doesn't have that problem because the 1911 is a locked breech, but then again there is no loading data or dies yet.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    There are dies, you just go to know where to look....

    http://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/c...&category=TCM0

    I have been thinking of this one myself. Even called Sarco to order one today only to be told that there stock system is not working or something to that order. It shows that they have them in stock. I think the Lee .22 Bator boolit would be a good candidate for this one.
    Last edited by xacex; 01-17-2013 at 03:30 AM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Silver Eagle's Avatar
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    Rock Island just displayed a rifle based upon this cartridge at the 2013 SHOT Show. Dies and reloading information is available.
    Pistol also comes with a 9mm barrel and recoil spring (uses the same magazine for both cartridges). Rather impressive performance from a light recoiling round. Waiting to see what the reviews and performance on the rifle are like.
    I have been seriously looking at it, but am waiting to see if it is a cartridge that is going to stay around or be another one that is hard to find later.
    Silver Eagle

    TANSTAAFL
    There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
    - Robert A. Heinlein from "The moon is a harsh mistress"

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    Ah, bolt action I see. The concept is good. I wish it would be SAMMI spec. This is how I see it as a reloader. I can shoot 223 till the neck splits then cut it and size to 300 blackout. Shoot the blackout till the neck splits then cut and re-size to 22TCM. Shoot TCM till the neck splits, and toss in the recycling bucket. I hear some who don't reload say why? It is in the same category of a 22 mag, or a 22 hornet. That's what I like about it. The brass is re-loadable, and more commonly available if you consider converting 223 brass. I for one would like a conversion barrel for it in the AR platform, or a revolver that used moon clips for it. It sips powder, and Lee Bator molds could make this real cheap to shoot. Not to mention with a 60K psi limit you could use a hot pistol powder to make this scream hotter than a 22 mag, or 22 Hornet.

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    I have the 22TCM/9mm RIA combo pistol. It's literally a blast with a huge fireball. Loud, attention getter. Ammo is readily available (probably because there aren't that many pistols out there yet.) Reloading components (other than primers and powder, that's another issue for another post) are readily available. Bullets are cheap $6.50 per hundred for 40 gr HP. Brass is $18 per hundred. One of the developers of the cartridge, Fred Craig, had some die sets made and sold them. I got a set from him along with bullets and brass. I'm following his reloading guidelines. Huge fun.

    I'm anxiously awaiting the bolt action rifle that is supposed to be out this summer. Oughta be a fun shooter as well.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I thought the tcm used necked down 9mm brass sized to 224

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Nope. It is the 223 REM case drastically shortened.

    Indeed, it is a FUN gun to shoot. Factory ammo, while not exactly cheap, is quite reasonable and considering the need to buy brass anyway and the lack of available die sets it makes sense to use factory. Of course the brass could be formed from 223 brass but, as I said, at this point no dies. I have committed to purchase an NOE 225107 37 grain mold via the current group. The profile appears to be ideal for this cartridge and I would expect that with a GC I should be able to approach 1800 fps with little or no leading. I guess I'll find out.

    Quote Originally Posted by khmer6 View Post
    I thought the tcm used necked down 9mm brass sized to 224
    I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people. I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem work itself out.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by roysha View Post
    Nope. It is the 223 REM case drastically shortened.

    Indeed, it is a FUN gun to shoot. Factory ammo, while not exactly cheap, is quite reasonable and considering the need to buy brass anyway and the lack of available die sets it makes sense to use factory. Of course the brass could be formed from 223 brass but, as I said, at this point no dies. I have committed to purchase an NOE 225107 37 grain mold via the current group. The profile appears to be ideal for this cartridge and I would expect that with a GC I should be able to approach 1800 fps with little or no leading. I guess I'll find out.
    As I mentioned earlier, there are Lee dies available for the 22 TCM. Look up a few posts, and follow the link.
    Edit: There was dies available. It looks like they sold out of them. They should have more in soon.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    xacex:
    I had contacted LEE directly as well as Craig. None available and with demand for "regular" stuff so high, it was going to be a while. Contacted HOR and they wanted $170 plus an up to 6 month wait from their custom shop. Before I do that I'll order a size die reamer from MANSON and make my own, plus, perhaps sell a couple to help pay for the reamer.

    Brushing:
    Where did you get your data?
    About all I have been able to find is 10 grains of H-110.
    I was thinking about trying to convert a 9mm AR to accept this round but it just doesn't seem to want to fit the 9mm AR mags very well. Perhaps it is just my mags.
    I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people. I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem work itself out.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    That's funny. Last month http://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/c...&category=TCM0 had the lee 22TCM die set in stock. I would give them a call to see when they get more in.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master



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    I spoke with ammosupplywarehouse 2 days ago and they are out of dies, said Lee is so backlogged it will be late summer before they have more dies.. He also said he could use about 500 sets!
    Dan in NC Call me TD

  14. #14
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by roysha View Post
    I was thinking about trying to convert a 9mm AR to accept this round but it just doesn't seem to want to fit the 9mm AR mags very well. Perhaps it is just my mags.
    I think a regular 9 mm magazine doesn't have the length to clear the TCM. I'm trying to get one of the combos as well and reallying looking forward to the rifle this summer, especially if it hits the %450 price mark!
    Dan in NC Call me TD

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by trooperdan View Post
    I think a regular 9 mm magazine doesn't have the length to clear the TCM. I'm trying to get one of the combos as well and reallying looking forward to the rifle this summer, especially if it hits the %450 price mark!
    RIA ships the combo to use the same mag. for both calibers.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    38 Super fits in the magazine and the 38 Super barrel drops right in, will try it as soon as I can get time to go shoot.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    I should have got the dies when they were in stock, but the gun was out of stock everywhere so I didn't jump on them. I still think this would be great with the .22 Bator boolit. Keeping my eye out for one of the Rock Island's. It would be nice to just get a barrel and do my single stack with 22 TCM. I already have a 1911 chambered in 38 super with a 9mm barrel as well that could be chucked right over to 22TCM.

  18. #18
    I just got turned on to the .22 TCM. I can't wait to get my hooks on one... The first thing I thought about was reloading dies for it...
    Tennessee... Patron state of shootin' stuff...

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy sharpshooter3040's Avatar
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    I bought one of these and i love it.Kinda sucked not having reloading data and dies so i made my own. I modified a set of lee 221 fireball dies to make brass with. sent off to John Whidden for a set of custom dies for a hundred bucks to reload my new brass consistantly. and now i'm in business. I make the brass out of range pickup 223 brass. if anyone is interested in the process i will share it. Its a little time consuming but hey we in the pistol craft love our labor right, errrr or labor of love something like that. I also use the 37 grain cast boolit. it performs great, and is very accurate and is a screamer as far as a handgun goes, even with a hard cast boolit. Use this data at your own risk , however for me it is tried and true. rem small rifle primer, 9.1 grains of accurate #7, 225107 cast boolit. operates the action flawlesly

  20. #20
    Boolit Master



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    Sharpshooter, I'm sure that all of us here would like to know your process! Please do post it.
    Dan in NC Call me TD

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check