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Thread: Can varget be used for paper patching in 308 win.

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub

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    Can varget be used for paper patching in 308 win.

    I am new to paper patching, and the only rifle powder I have on hand is varget. Does anyone have experience using varget for this application?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard, somedude101. Yes you can use Varget and it is probably a good choice. Try it and see. I'd use a tuft of Dacron to hold the powder against the primer although the air space should be quite small. Use a published starting load for a bullet of the weight you have as a starting point.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    Only one way to learn, and that is to do. Use sensible data from a reputable source and ask specific questions. Not everyone on this forum has all the answers, but taken collectively, this group is awesome!!! The gentleman in post #2 has posted some pretty impressive findings in past threads.

  4. #4
    Boolit Bub

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    Thanks for the reply, I tried a few patched boolits mabey 20 or so. They shot terible. I knew my boolits were not quite right from the start, the core was .303 (I honed my sizing die to much the first time) wraped with tracing paper. I had also heard that ball powder is preferd for pp. Just trying to figure out if my boolets were the problem or if possibly stick powder is the devil for pp shooting. I now have a .301 sizing die and will try those this weekend. The tuft of Dacron you mention, is that the same thing cheap stuffed animals are filled with?

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    Varget will do well.
    Use start load data for jacketeds of the same weight. You should not need any fillers. Use the OAL of the same load in jacketeds.
    Sizing will be something you will need to play with.
    I size my castings to the advertised sizeing. I only do it to smooth out the casting itself. After wrapping, then I size to final dia.
    In other words,
    If I am casting for .308, then I cast and size for .308, wrap twice with notebook paper, let dry, then size to .309. The casting will grow to about .310 and my .30s think that is great. My .303, I size to .308, wrap twice, then size to .314.
    That works for me better than sizing the casting to .301. I never could make that work.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master pdawg_shooter's Avatar
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    Sure can, however in my .308 loading the 311284 AA4350 gives the best accuracy.
    45 AUTO! Because having to shoot someone twice is just silly!

  7. #7
    Boolit Master nanuk's Avatar
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    Can varget be used for paper patching in 308 win.



    Heh.... nope... too small... you really need PAPER to patch... flattening those kernals, then gluing them together would take FOR-ever!
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  8. #8
    Boolit Bub

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    Well I shot my pp ammo today, and accuracy was pretty bad. Shooting about 12 inch group at 20 yards. I was shooting a 175 grain coresized to .301 with 42, 43, and 44 grains of varget wraped with yellow notebook paper. Pdawg said that he gets better accuracy from 4350 kind of wondering what the accuracy diffrence is. Any one know what the secret to my load might be to get alright groups. I'm not realy sure what to change first, powder is realy hard to get ahold of right now so I have to stick with varget right now. Any suggestions would be greatly appriciated.

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub

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    By the way my rifle is a DPMS lr 308 clasic 20 with 1 in 10 twist. I am just loading one round at a time, not from the mag. Not getting any leading to speak of just a grey film on the flash hider.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Cast to .308, I also size them .308. Then wrap twice with lined notebook paper. Let dry. I wrap soaking wet and the paper shrinks and is real strong. I then size them to .309 using Turtle wax to lube with. Just a tad. Load to start load data for jacketeds the same weight.
    My best were with the Lee 180C mold for the .30cal.
    From what it sounds like, they are too small when loaded. My Ishapore did the same thing untill I did that. It flung them all over the bank.
    Plus, you are cleaning the bore with the paper.
    Hang in there, you will get it.

  11. #11
    Boolit Bub

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    Docone31 thanks for the reply, the first pp rounds I made were like you described and they did not do well. I think there is probably something that I am doing that is just not right, so I have tried something different from what I had done before. All of my bullets are already sized to 301 so I'll just go with that for now. What I did different is that I used 40 grains of varget and .5 grains of Dacron. I have never used filler before and I'm pretty sure that will be a safe load, but if anyone with some experience feels like it is not I would love to know so that I don't do anything stupid.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    That might be OK but maybe a little less powder would produce better results. I'm thinking the launch pressure may be too high resulting in bump up before the boolit is fully supported by the bore. Nose slump is another consideration with higher peak pressure. Try those 40gr loads then perhaps follow with another batch of 38grs or something and see what if any difference there might be. Going higher might even be better, who knows?
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  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Somedude101,

    12" groups at 20 yds may indicate you have a PPCB fitting problem in your rifle chamber. PPCB cannot tolerate jumping some distance before engaging the rifling. Reason? The PPCB can be cocked before it enters the rifling. This in-bore yaw/cocking promotes inaccuracy after muzzle exit. Two options are available;1. for shorter CB, adjust the OAL so that the PP(just over start of ogive) is against chamber forcing cone or 2. for longer CB, adjust OAL so that bare forward cylindrical part of CB is in rifling but the PP(located on cylindrical section but back from the ogive) is against forcing cone and CB base is ideally no deeper than case neck. The NRA Cast Bullet Manual (available free on Castpics) shows how they did it successfully for different length CB. Likewise, they show how in-bore yaw leads to inaccuracy.

    Best regards,

    CJR

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    That semi auto may prove to be problematical for shooting paper patched boolits. You really do want the patch to engrave the rifling when the bolt is closed. But with that rifle by the time you get good engraving the bolt may not want to close all the way. Keep at it, you are on the right track but you may find a bolt gun is a lot easier to get to work than a semi auto. Of course my first attempts with a bolt gun didn't keep all the rounds on the entire range, so we all have a learning curve to climb!

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub

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    When I used copier paper I had to trim the patch back to very close to the case in order to get it to extract without ripping the boolit out of the case and powder went everywhere. Many of the rounds I loaded that way would not chamber without using the foreword assist. I have switched to notebook paper and I have found that after I lube with JPW the round will chamber and eject properly, also I can see a small bit of rifling on the end of my patch maybe 1/16 inch or so. I am hoping this powder/Dacron load with the longer notebook patch will do the trick. I’ll find out this weekend though.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I worked up an s k s once. W/it the trick was in the patch length, I actually had a patch that was Behring the ogive and a harder boolit than I thought I wanted. After a slam fire I changed primers. Viola' groups 2"wide 3"tall at 50 w/7 of 10 on a 5 gallon bucket at 200. That doesn't sound great,but taking in the bore being 316x305 and being able to chamber lee 324-175 only sized to 321 and a leade long enough to a 200gr spire point w/the boolit base even at the neck/case junction,it looked pretty good to me. IMR 4350 was my powder w/CCI LR primers.
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  17. #17
    Boolit Bub

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    I went to the range this weekend, and the tuft of Dacron seems to help. The grouping was about half that of last time I went, about 5 inches wide and about 2.5 inches tall. I am going to seat my boolet longer so that the base is even with the case neck, also I'm going to make my patch a little longer. I spent several hours monkeying around with a few dummy rounds to find how long I can seat the boolet and how long the patch can be while still being able to eject the round. Finally I think I'm gona get some imr 4350, everybody says they get the best accuracy from it and that is ultimately what I am after. Nobade was absolutely right about the learning curve, but I think I'm about to get it.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    I am working on a .30-40 Krag with PP and getting close but no boring holes touching at 100 yet. I am using R19 under a 215 gr bullet patched with printer paper. I tried some 4350. Results were about the same velocity wise and group wise. With propellants getting hard to get, that might help you a little.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    40 grains of Varget seems a bit high for cast.

    Horace

  20. #20
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I'd suggest trying wheat bran as a filler. It needs to be sieved to get the large bits out and also any silk from bugs. The case needs to be tamped and the case filled up half way up the neck for good compression so it doesn't settle loose. It doesn't raise pressure all that much but it does raise it some. Use either Varget or 4350. I've used 40gr H4350 under a 192gr boolit with wheat bran filled up to the top of the neck. Accuracy was so-so but it did hit the target. A little less Varget should have the same result, about the proportion one finds in loading tables but not 40grs. I've used 40grs Varget under 243gr cast with cotton wool filler with OK pressure but that was plain cast not paper patched and not with wheat bran filler. 30grs Varget under a 200gr boolit is more like it.

    I achived encouraging accuracy with 220gr plain cast over 35.5gr Varget (AR2208 actually - same thing) with cotton wool filler.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
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