1919 a6

[sdcitizen]

So, a while back I was chatting with a local class III dealer about cast boolits in 308, he seemed rather incredulous that they would work for anything at all, other than low power slow speed. After giving him a run down on what I am working towards with a 308, he wasn't buying that it was possible. Well just yesterday he contacted me again about other re-loads, and brought up the question of whether or not it would be possible to shoot cast through belt fed rifles. I told him I really have no idea, though I suppose it might be worth looking into. So, anyone care to hazard a guess as to what it might take to get cast to run full auto pulled from links? One of his favorites is a 1919A6, but he probably has a half dozen different 'samples.' I was thinking the work done with an M1A would be a good starting point, though I have no idea how the gas system works on any of those toys he has.

[jimb16]

I used to have a semi-auto A6. It would not function reliably using j-bullets unless the rounds were FULL POWER. I really doubt that you can find a LB load that would work. Those guns work on recoil and I just don't think you can get enough umph out of a CB load to get them to function. Gas guns, yes, but recoil, no.

[Combat Diver]

Browning machine guns (1917,1919, M2, M3 and M37) are all recoil operated, no gas. IIRC the 1895 was also recoil operated.


CD

[I'll Make Mine]

The first Browning machine gun, nicknamed the "potato digger", was gas operated (gas actuated an external swinging lever that unlocked the bolt; residual pressure then drove the bolt and feed mechanism while the lever swung back into its socket under the barrel). I don't recall if that was the 1895, but that's about the right time frame.

Mind you, I doubt any of us has or knows anyone who has a working potato digger -- few were made and they were obsolete well before the onset of WWI.

[Jack Stanley]

Being that it's recoil operated my first thought would be to go to a heavier bullet first then see it you could make it function with some measure of accuracy . Perhaps something that looks like a 314299 with a large nose ... maybe size at .310" ... lube with a premium lube and use slow powder to launch with . The load for my 1903A3 is similar to this and clocks at over twenty-three hundred . The recoil does let ya know ya got a handfull .

Jack

[sdcitizen]

Good info, thanks fellas. Next time I see him I will advise him of this, perhaps see if he has any gas operated actions, though I do like Jack's idea. I wonder if the bolt assembly could be lightened up a bit to reduce the requirement for so much gas pressure? Was looking at the history of MG 42's (he has a 42/53 whatchamacallit) and I see that light weight bolts were developed for training with blanks.

[Multigunner]

I've read an article of the late sixties or early 70's about the use of cast boolit loads in a variety of MG and LMG. The story was about a machinegun dealer who used cast boolits for demonstrations of the various full auto weapons he had for sale.
If any load data was mentioned I don't remember it, but I do remember that the only real difficulty he had was with recoil operated guns that had a gas assist muzzle nut, like the MG34 and MG43.
He got around that by making relief cuts in the portion of the muzzle that fitted into the nut. Milled slots scraped away lead fouling and captured it to allow extended firing before cleaning.

[Larry Gibson]

The 311299 or 314299 over 4831 will function recoil operated Brownings and Maxims w/o any mods to spring or bolt. The load will function/feed nicely from the belt also. COWWs + 2%tin WQ'd is the alloy used. Enough 4831 to push to 2100 - 2200 fps is needed. Accuracy is all that is needed for a MG.

Larry Gibson

[sdcitizen]

Thanks BWB, Larry, Looks like I might be able to find an excuse to invest in another mold from NOE

[30CAL-TEXAN]

I don't know if it would be accurate at the velocity required to function but the 311365 would look absolutely sick as a belt fed round.

[justashooter]

the 1919 family does use a gas assist in functioning. the cage at end of barrel is a gas booster that pushes backward on the barrel.

[KCSO]

All I can tell you for sure is that loads that function in a Garand won't work a 1919.

[SOFMatchstaff]

There is no reason you cant use cast in the 1919 guns, I load a 150gr Berrys 30-30 bullet over a charge of 3031, 7.62x51, at 2300fps The over all length of the round is very important for the feed cycle to work smoothly, as is the size of the exit hole in the booster. A 308 will not run well or at all with a 30-06 or 8mm booster installed. If a heavy cast projectile is chosen and you want to keep it at a velocity that is friendly to cast and bores you will benefit from the 308 booster diameter. I had to make a spacer for the feed block to keep the shorter OAL cartridges in the belt pushed back in the feed tray so the extractor would engage the rims. I wish I could have found a Blank spacer, , but made it work anyhow.

If you have a 1919 that wont run on Garand ammo, then there's something wrong with the gun period. I've built a number of these, both semi and NFA, and most of the problems come down to timing, headspace, booster exit diameter and barrel to booster bearing surface fit. The links are caliber specific also.
I havent tried any of the heavy cast in my guns, but I did see a awesome 8mm Schwarzlose MG 07/12 running like a Swiss watch on cast bullet ammo down at ****pot Crater years ago, deadly accurate at 500yds. I would guess the heavy ball ammo at around 1950 to 2100 would work fine.

OOPS I forgot, do these qualify as rifles???

[Combat Diver]

The fact that they do is why Feinstein wants to ban all belt fed semi auto rifles to include the TNW M2HB semi. They are listed at the bottom of the banned guns in her 2013 AWB.


CD

[jonk]

Got a buddy with a 1919 rebarreled to 8mm. While he has pallets of turk and romo (and won't sell any!) he got curious and ran some cast in one once. 200 gr bullet over a case full of 4831 (well to the base of the neck anyhow) and regular old 50/50 lube. Had to tinker with seating depth to get them to feed ok, but after that it did just fine.

About the only thing to watch for is mummies. Unburnt powder i mean. While a few kernels of unburnt powder in the chamber of a bolt action won't ruin your day, they can be bad enough to throw headspace off, which would lead to a lovely jam in any automatic.

[ddeaton]

My semi 1919 runs on anything my Garand eats and it is gas operated. Should run fine with cast, I will try it this summer. Gives me an excuse to use my new Mihec brass mold!