m67/89 Swedish Rolling Block

[craig61a]

I had been considering getting one of these for the past few years. Found one I liked and it arrived a couple days ago. I'm in the process of getting it cleaned up, oiled etc. It appears the headspace is around .070", so I'll able to use 45-70 or 8x56R without having to mess with rims. I plan on just shooting cast out of it, and am trying to decide what boolit weight I want for it. Anyways, here's a few pics from the auction...

[Chicken Thief]

Mine shoots absolutly great with the 8mm MAX boolit.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...ku=000068MMMAX




My eyes are not that good and this is what i can manage at 50m.
Best load is middle pic (10 shots)


Homemade GC and sized to .325

[craig61a]

Thanks for the reply - the price is definately right for that mold... I'll have to slug the barrel and see what I get for size. The barrel is in very good condition; there is some very light pitting along the edges of the grooves, but nothing of any consequence. I guess I didn't realize that these were 6 groove barrels... Bonus!

[Boz330]

The Mid South mold works great sized .325. I had good luck from 4759 (less than 2") at 100yd. Fun gun.


Bob

[TCLouis]

Chicken Thief

That first photo of the scale, boolits, calipers and case is one of the best firearms related photos I have ever seen.
Simply elegant.

Looks like the gun likes that boolit.

[Chicken Thief]

And it shows how "deep" i seat the boolit.

[Dakota7]

I have a few of those, they are great rifles. They are chambered in 8x58R Danish Krag not 8x56R. You can get brass made from 45-70 cases from Buffalo Arms. They sell the .070 headspace cases. Here is a link. http://www.buffaloarms.com/Brass_8mm....aspx?CAT=3829

[craig61a]

Well after a long winter I finally got around to slugging this rifle. Have a couple other projects going, but I'm pleased with what I found.
Slugged .323 x .316, so I'm expecting good results. I have to order the 8mm MAX mold, and I was looking at Accurate Molds 32-220B also. I ordered some cases from Buffalo Arms (5 to be exact - .070 Headspace) a few months back, just to see if the .070 would work for me. Seems they are out of them now (Given the current situation that's no surprise...). I'll have to get some dies yet - not sure if I want to go with CH4D or have Lee make something up. Then figure out what sizing dies I want, etc.

[enfield]

Get a set of Lee 8mm lebel dies and some 8x56 Hun brass, fire form it and you will be able to shoot the old roller.

[leadman]

I have one also and shoot the Lyman 160gr Loverin boolit out of it most of the time. This boolit has enough bearing surface to reach the throat with no problem. I also shoot the Lee Karabiner in it. Got the mold brom Boz.
Keep the pressure down on this gun as they tend to put parts of the gun in ones eye socket if it comes apart. Look for posts by the Dutchman on these.

[Dutchman]

Let us be clear about what's being talked about in regards to "headspace" of m/1889 Swedish rolling blocks.

There is not 2 different headspace standards for Swedish m/1889 rolling blocks. Does Buffalo Arms possess a set of proper headspace gauges for Swedish rolling blocks? Wanna bet on the answer to this? Does Buffalo Arms possess Swedish military technical papers or Norma technical papers on correct headspace for the Swedish 8x58RD cartridge in the m/1889 rolling block?

Rim thickness does not equate to headspace specification. Do not confuse headspace specifications between Danish Krag bolt action rifles and Swedish rolling block rifles. Apples vs Oranges.

Cases I have from Buffalo Arms vary in rim thickness from .053" to .057". These are from about 13 years ago.

Bertram case rim thickness is hard to measure because they are beveled but I got .067". Let me also add that Bertrum cases are THE WORST case you can buy for 8x58RD. They are undersized in the body and have split on first firing for many who've tried them. Photo below are Bertrum cases on first firing. The best we could measure showed the body diameter being .020" undersize.



Now I wouldn't swear on a bible as to exactly how many times these cases have been reloaded but it's less than 5 times. And they had been annealed. The case forming process used by Buffalo Arms s t r e t c h e s the cases longer than standard .45-70 cases. The process works the brass excessively. You can flick your fingernail on the case neck and it'll ring like a bell. These below are Buffalo Arms cases made from R-P .45-70.



I've been in possession of about 35 rolling blocks direct from Sweden. Of those there were a few that had excessive front-to-back play in the breechblock when the hammer was down. This indicates excessive wear between the pivot pin and the hole in the breechblock. It can be repaired via bushing the hole. I had to have that done to one m/1889 rifle as the play was so severe I couldn't in good conscious offer it for sale as it was and it was a very rare school rifle.

If your rifle has front-to-back play in the breechblock when the hammer is down you have a problem that can't be fixed by using a thicker cartridge rim. What that does is exposes more of the case head than is safe and since rolling blocks have NO GAS ESCAPE other than venting directly UP from the top of the breechblock this presents an unsafe condition.

And just where do you get correct headspace gauges for 8x58R Danish? Anywhere? Anybody? If you try and fake it with scotch tape or plastigage on a cartridge face I'm going to point fingers and laugh at you. There's only one right way to check headspace and it doesn't involve scotch tape. Custom made gauges are a possibility and the "correct" gauge rim thicknesses could be extrapolated from some other 1880s era rimmed gauges.

How do you measure a "little bit" of play in the breechblock? Does "little bit" mean .003"? How much play is too much?

What I'm suggesting is that you take this subject seriously.

I've gotten 10 shot one hole group at 50 yds with Lyman 323470 .324"..... using the Marble's tang sight and a 1/16" Marble's ivory bead front sight.




So you know what cartridge is dimensionally correct for the m/1867-89....

Danish military issue case dated 1931 and
loaded in Sweden with a soft point bullet.

case OAL = 2.272"
head diameter = .501"
rim diameter = .574"
rim thickness = .058"
bullet diameter
at case mouth = .323"

Norma commercial 8x58RD
headstamp = Norma 8mm m/89

case OAL = 2.266"
head diameter = .501"
rim diameter = .576"
rim thickness = .059"
bullet diameter
at case mouth = .323"
(same bullet as above, 196gr RN SP)

[Boz330]

Leadman has the 8MM cases that I got from BACO. They must have improved there process of forming cases because I sure put way more than 5 reloads on them while I had them and I never lost a case. I wasn't into trying to hot rod them though. If I want a magnum I'll buy one. Leadman have you had any of them fail? I may have annealed them somewhere along the way since I do that at least once a year with my BPCR brass and anything else I shoot a lot. But don't remember for a fact that I did.

Bob

[Chicken Thief]

If anyone will take the hassle i have 300 original 1931 made unfired, i'll part with.
I will pull the bullet and powder, pop the primer and wash/tumble them (so they are mercury free).
But then again. if you will take the hassle you can have them with stuffing and all.

I highly recommend that the primer holes are drilled up to 1,5mm~@1/16", that way the primers are a breeze to pop with a small awl or similar.





These are made for the Danish Krag-Jørgensen rifle and will pound the snot out of a Rolling Block!

I made a punch from a bit of alu and the best part of an Allen key.





Here is what happens to cases that were fired long time ago and the mercury has attacked the brass and made it brittle (you cant anneal to make this problem go avay!)

[Malgus]

Extremely interesting discussion...

So, rimmed bottleneck cartridges... they headspace on the rim or on the shoulder? Experience says on the rim, but I'm not remembering anything specific about these animals... sort of neither fish nor fowl.

(I should pull my notes from school and go over them again... sigh)...

[Cap'n Morgan]

Here's a couple of pics I snatched from another forum. They show the gauges for measuring headspace, or perhaps more correctly, rimspace, on the Danish 11mm Remington and the 8x58R. The difference from smallest to largest is 0.016 - don't know what the GO / NO-GO measurements are.

[Smokepole50]

You guys with Swedish RB's in 8x58RD should look at this thread I have running on Gunboards. I have been doing testing of various loads in the Swedish RB.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...ss-Help-needed

I just recently, 6/15/13, tested NOE's 8mm 224gr boolit mold with 2400 and SR4759. I will be posting this data soon. It shot very well at 25 yards, a ragged hole, but I need to stretch it out a bit and test for groups. I sized it .326 and pushed it to 1600 fps while maintaining pressures below 20,000 psi.

In Norma's last reloading book that included load data for the 8x58RD cartridge, Norma called out using VV N140 powder. I have done pressure testing with N140 which can be seen in the link above. AA 5744 also proved to be a good powder using Hornady 170gr RN bullets. BE very careful with the 8x58RD cartridge. It is very easy to go above 28,000 psi which Norma indicates as the MAX pressure for this rifle.

Dutchman........that picture of the three Burtram cases with the split sides looks very familiar. I think that is my picture, if so, those cases were annealed before firing and failed on the first or second loading.
Smokepole50

[Dutchman]

Dutchman........that picture of the three Burtram cases with the split sides looks very familiar. I think that is my picture, if so, those cases were annealed before firing and failed on the first or second loading.
Smokepole50

Yep, I remember. I keep all relevant info & photos concerning the m/1889 rolling blocks in 8x58RD. The message has spread very well via the web and we've not heard of any blown guns or injuries. Again, I'm glad you're here in this forum adding your valuable load data and pressure testing to the growing pool of knowledge.

Dutch

[craig61a]

Well I'm back at working this. Had been looking to get a hold of some 45-90 for the last several months... Then while at my local reloading place I found they had 45-100 in stock. So I ran a bunch of those and have a nice little supply of cases. I have to cast some boolits up but I'll finally get around to shooting it soon...

[Frank46]

Dutch, you ought to post that picture you once posted of a Swedish rolling block that you had the muzzle re crowned. Almost fell of my chair when I first saw it. Kind of reminded me of some of the old style schutzen rifles. Frank

[enfield]

So what are people using for dies, I'm making due with 8mm Lebel but is there a Lee collet die that will crimp the neck slightly from fired size. ( the Lebel squeeeeeezes them too much ) 8x57 , 32 spl ?? I don't have either to try.