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Thread: S&B brand primers BIG DISAPPOINTMENT!!!

  1. #41
    Boolit Mold
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    Hello gentlemen,
    what you describe is here in Europe, where you do very often stumble into Sellier and Bellot brass as well as primers, very common reloaders experience. It works best to put S&B primers into S&B brass, or rework the primer pockets as the pockets as specified by S&B are a bit on the tight side! Actually the primers are not bad, maybe a bit "harder" than the US stuff, but not at all unreliable or inconsistent. However the brass is usually worn and torn after a lot less reloads than other brands. Seems to be a bit harder and therefore resizing is taking it's toll. Sometimes it helps a bit to turn the brass while trying to set the primer. At least it helps with my Dillon press.

    Kindest regards from Germany

    Lueftl

  2. #42
    Boolit Buddy handyman25's Avatar
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    So far I have only loaded and fired about 400 of the tula sp primers. I use a Lee load master and had no problems. A friend of mine uses a Dillon and said the primers stick some time. About 2 out of 100. The firing side of the primer is rougher than a Federal, Winchester or CCI

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    Posts from pistol shooters and others using automated or progressive loader belong in a thread of their own.
    Trouble using components on one of these machines is not necessarily a problem with the component.
    In this case not a round of ammo has been fired and the comments were due to function in a loading machine.
    EDG

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lueftl View Post
    Hello gentlemen,
    what you describe is here in Europe, where you do very often stumble into Sellier and Bellot brass as well as primers, very common reloaders experience. It works best to put S&B primers into S&B brass, or rework the primer pockets as the pockets as specified by S&B are a bit on the tight side! Actually the primers are not bad, maybe a bit "harder" than the US stuff, but not at all unreliable or inconsistent. However the brass is usually worn and torn after a lot less reloads than other brands. Seems to be a bit harder and therefore resizing is taking it's toll. Sometimes it helps a bit to turn the brass while trying to set the primer. At least it helps with my Dillon press.

    Kindest regards from Germany

    Lueftl
    Thank you for the info. I'll try that next loading as I have had some trouble too with the s&b brass. I try to use ALL my brass.
    It's not scrap till all steps have been tried to correct the issue. I dont speed load so I like to find a fix and a method to correct any issues that may arise.
    Some brass I like to hand prime, others go thru the progressive press primer system. I never rush when reloading. If I dont have the time then I dont start.

    Mike

  5. #45
    Boolit Master reed1911's Avatar
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    We use S&B primers on some loads and I've never seen a difference in performance or loading.

  6. #46
    Boolit Mold
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    I dont have any experiance with their primers, but I reloaded some 9mm brass once. It realoaded and primed very well. IIRC it had a large bevel on the primer pocket that made it really easy to prime. Maybe the factory had problems with the primers hanging also

  7. #47
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    They both loaded and shot just as any others I've loaded. They are just as hard as CCI primers, if not harder.
    Incorrect about hardness to CCI

    2015 Update
    Test Procedure: Using a Lee Hardness Tester that measures Brinell hardness, placed a new primer on a piece of steel. Held the indent ball on the primer for 30 seconds using a 5/32” SS ball with 60 lbs load pressure
    Measurement is the diameter of the indent, smaller numbers indication harder brass

    Pistol Primers

    0.30 CCI 500 SP, lot K27U41
    0.32 – CCI 300 LP
    0.32 CCI 350 LPM, lot G10R
    0.38 – Federal GM150 Match LP
    0.38 – Sellier & Bellot SP
    0.38 – Sellier & Bellot LP

    0.40 – Federal 155 LP Magnum
    0.40 – Winchester - Western WLP
    0.42 – Federal 150 LP
    0.42 - Federal 100 SP
    0.42 – Remington 1 ½ SP
    0.44 – CCI 500 SP
    0.48 – Remington 2 ½ LP
    0.48 – CCI LP Lot 0264 – old CCI primers

    Rifle Primers
    0.24 – Herters 120 LR
    0.26 – CCI BR-2 LR
    0.28 – CCI 200 LR, lot H27M
    0.28 Win-WLR, lot HNL347G
    0.28 CCI 400 SR, lot CO1K
    0.30 – Rem UMC Nickeled High Pressure LR
    0.30 CCI 400 SR, lot E26U
    0.32 – Federal 215 LR Magnum
    0.34 – Remington 9 ½ LR
    0.36 – Western 8 ½ LR
    0.38 - Rem 7 ½ Bench Rest
    0.38 – Alcan LR Magnum
    0.40 – Federal 210 LR
    0.40 – Winchester 115 Staynless LR

    0.30 - Dynamit AG cal 6.34
    0.32 - Dynamit AG cal 4.5

    Note: All Lot Numbers were not recorded
    Regards
    John

  8. #48
    Boolit Mold Theunsb's Avatar
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    Hi
    In my part of the world S&B primers are in great demand, we battle to find other brands at reasonable prices.
    Example Federal S&B SPP @ $62,5 per 1,000 whereas $25,83 for S&B last buy a week ago both brands as my Taurus 608 works reliable only with Federal primers and the rest loves them small and large primers.
    My Hornady LnL AP is happy with S&B small and large primers since I smoothed my primer sliders and slide slot from all rough edges. Various brass types, now, that is another story for another night.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master



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    This won't add much to the S&B discussion except to point out that it can be a problem with other brands also. I have 1k CCI's under my bench, carefully marked "caution, oversize!".......and they are. They're standard large rifle primers but measure a full .001 larger than spec. You'd think and extra thousandth in diameter shouldn't be a problem, but I mangled quite a few before I got curious and pulled out a micrometer. Note that this is a batch from the late 1960's (black and white box) and I was informed that CCI had a quality control problem for a short time during that era.

    They're still perfectly useable, provided I seat each one carefully. With the cost/availability of components changing daily, I ain't throwin' nothin' away!

    As for S&B, after reading all the negative comments on their cartridge case primer pockets, the primer issue doesn't surprise me.

  10. #50
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I may have gotten a good lot, but have had absolutely no problem with S&B SP primers.
    The only relate problem is with badly tarnished (range pickup) S&B primers tearing the head off instead of depriming. It's with 9mm and the brass isn't worth extra effort, so I just save them for swaging 40 cal with.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master

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    John Boy THANKS!! The info you quoted below is very helpful.




    Quote Originally Posted by John Boy View Post
    Incorrect about hardness to CCI

    2015 Update
    Test Procedure: Using a Lee Hardness Tester that measures Brinell hardness, placed a new primer on a piece of steel. Held the indent ball on the primer for 30 seconds using a 5/32” SS ball with 60 lbs load pressure
    Measurement is the diameter of the indent, smaller numbers indication harder brass

    Pistol Primers

    0.30 CCI 500 SP, lot K27U41
    0.32 – CCI 300 LP
    0.32 CCI 350 LPM, lot G10R
    0.38 – Federal GM150 Match LP
    0.38 – Sellier & Bellot SP
    0.38 – Sellier & Bellot LP

    0.40 – Federal 155 LP Magnum
    0.40 – Winchester - Western WLP
    0.42 – Federal 150 LP
    0.42 - Federal 100 SP
    0.42 – Remington 1 ½ SP
    0.44 – CCI 500 SP
    0.48 – Remington 2 ½ LP
    0.48 – CCI LP Lot 0264 – old CCI primers

    Rifle Primers
    0.24 – Herters 120 LR
    0.26 – CCI BR-2 LR
    0.28 – CCI 200 LR, lot H27M
    0.28 Win-WLR, lot HNL347G
    0.28 CCI 400 SR, lot CO1K
    0.30 – Rem UMC Nickeled High Pressure LR
    0.30 CCI 400 SR, lot E26U
    0.32 – Federal 215 LR Magnum
    0.34 – Remington 9 ½ LR
    0.36 – Western 8 ½ LR
    0.38 - Rem 7 ½ Bench Rest
    0.38 – Alcan LR Magnum
    0.40 – Federal 210 LR
    0.40 – Winchester 115 Staynless LR

    0.30 - Dynamit AG cal 6.34
    0.32 - Dynamit AG cal 4.5

    Note: All Lot Numbers were not recorded
    Last edited by azrednek; 05-09-2015 at 01:24 PM.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master

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    I wish you had some of my Wolf spp to test. I've been getting very random results with them. All my loading is single stage. I've detailed my problems in this thread:

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ight-Spring-or

    As I get time, I plan to try them in a variety of guns. So far only a S&W Model 65 and a S&W Model 28. The 65 had the most problems, possibly because of a bobbed hammer giving a light strike. The Model 28 failed to fire some but others had a very pronounced indentation.
    John
    W.TN

  13. #53
    Boolit Grand Master

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    FWIW; a side thought. All the S&B brass I've loaded had "tight" primer pockets. I also noticed each had very little chamfer on the mouth of the pocket, more of a sharp edge. I chamfered the pocket as I would military brass and "problem" went away...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  14. #54
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdi View Post
    FWIW; a side thought. All the S&B brass I've loaded had "tight" primer pockets. I also noticed each had very little chamfer on the mouth of the pocket, more of a sharp edge. I chamfered the pocket as I would military brass and "problem" went away...
    I do the same with my S&B brass but it still takes considerably more pressure to send the primers home.

  15. #55
    Boolit Mold
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    My recent order of S&B small pistol primers was just to fill some added space on a hazmat order through powder valley. I had been using Tula SPP. In 9mm and my S&W M&P9 with apex trigger kit, these work great, rarely a dud. On my S&W M&P40 with apex trigger, the Tulas have very frequent failure to fire. Primer dents but doesn't fire. Most won't fire on restrike. This is an issue in part due to my trigger loop possibly needing some more work, and a Lazy/Worn striker assembly I have an order in for new striker parts, but they are backordered. Anyway, I decided to try the S&B's to see if I had the same issue, and I've only had one FTF and that fired on restrike, and that was in a 600+ round run of bullets. So I consider that a good record. I'll be ordering more. To the OP, I wonder if the primers sat in unfavorable conditions in storage and the distributer or vendor where clearing them out due to duds ?????? The S&B's I've run are flatter on the face, and flow nicer through my Hornady LnL progressive and my Lee Loadmaster better than the tulas. I get less tipped primers in the Loadmaster, at least in the small run I did with them on that press just to confirm they flowed well enough as I Plan to use the S&B's moving forward, as they are slightly cheaper vs the Tulas. I did only test 100 through the LLM as I'm using all of the 3k S&B's I have mostly for the 40 as the Tulas work fine in my 9mm and I have a few k of those to use up.

  16. #56
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyLahey View Post
    To the OP, I wonder if the primers sat in unfavorable conditions in storage and the distributer or vendor where clearing them out due to duds ??????
    I'm speculating that I possibly got a bad batch. I don't think but can't say for sure they were improperly stored. One of the first things I noticed was how bright and shiny the S&B's were. I did some tweaking with my Hornady Lock N Load and the S&B's do feed a bit better BUT last time I had 3 or 4 that didn't have a primer out of apx 150 rds of 38 Special. I also culled a few primer-less rds from a batch of 9MM. I don't recall the number of 9's so I can safely say "a few".

    I still have the inconsistent feeling seating the S&B's. One will slide right in and the next might take a considerable amount of elbow grease. They were loaded in multi fired brass so the primer pocket is also suspect.

    My last trip to the range with apx 400 rds of 9, 38, 45 ACP & Colt, I had a few duds. Best I recall all fired in the second strike. In the mix I also had some Tula primers and for some reason that escapes me. I forgot to label the type primer with the loading data.

    I do feel some what better about the S&B's. I have to admit to being a bit po'd and frustrated in the original post and blew off some steam while writing it. In summary I'll shoot'em up but wont put my life on the line with the S&B's. For recreational purposes the S&B's are fine, I got what I paid for and once the supply normalizes. I will only use Winchester with the possible exception of Wolf. 1,000 LP Wolf brand loaded in 45 ACP, Colt and AR were 100% perfect. Most if not all were shot S/A in S&W revolvers.
    Past 5 or so years I quit with the meticulous record keeping.

    I recently acquired a S&W 45 ACP, Model of 1988. I suspect the previous owner played with the main spring tension. With a hodge-podge of LP primer brands I had apx 10% needing a second strike when fired in the D/A mode. The failures were some what my fault as I got lazy and began using my fingernails to extract instead of loading into moon clips. Chances are good my home cast lead slugs were not seated deeply enough in the cylinder. I don't recall any duds with AR brass and I just can't recall if I needed a second strike with ACP brass on clips.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    There is a thread similar to this one over on the "AR" forum. It seems Cabelas had the S&B primers for a good price recently. Every single post is 100% favorable towards the S&B primers. Not a single negative reply.

    Kinda makes you wonder. ?????

    Motor

  18. #58
    Boolit Buddy Expat74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lueftl View Post
    Hello gentlemen,
    what you describe is here in Europe, where you do very often stumble into Sellier and Bellot brass as well as primers, very common reloaders experience. It works best to put S&B primers into S&B brass, or rework the primer pockets as the pockets as specified by S&B are a bit on the tight side! Actually the primers are not bad, maybe a bit "harder" than the US stuff, but not at all unreliable or inconsistent. However the brass is usually worn and torn after a lot less reloads than other brands. Seems to be a bit harder and therefore resizing is taking it's toll. Sometimes it helps a bit to turn the brass while trying to set the primer. At least it helps with my Dillon press.

    Kindest regards from Germany

    Lueftl
    What Lueftl says.. haven't had bad experiences either. My 2 cents from Switzerland.
    E Svizzeri sono armatissimi e liberissimi.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCY...7s-n6LwwJNbPGg

  19. #59
    Boolit Master Cmm_3940's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdi View Post
    FWIW; a side thought. All the S&B brass I've loaded had "tight" primer pockets. I also noticed each had very little chamfer on the mouth of the pocket, more of a sharp edge. I chamfered the pocket as I would military brass and "problem" went away...
    Concur, this has been my experience as well.

  20. #60
    Boolit Mold
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    I think the fact that the email was "spam" might be an indication that maybe they are not real S&B primers, ot that they are substandard primers that have been diverted to the grey market.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check