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Thread: S&B brand primers BIG DISAPPOINTMENT!!!

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    In my experience all of the S&B brass I have ever used had undersized primer pockets, this includes 303 Brit, 6.5X55, 9mm, 38 Spcl and 308 Win. I swage the primer pockets with my RCBS primer pocket uniformer and all is well. It is a pain in the rear and I only do it to brass that I really need.

    Gary

  2. #22
    Boolit Mold escard's Avatar
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    Sellier & Bellot uses significantly smaller dimensioned primer pockets - this is also the reason for the mess while seating some of the "classic" primers (Winchester, Remington, cci, Federal ....).

    The primers of the S&B brand may have the right dimensions for their companyīs brass, but not for brass of "the rest of the world".

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Just an fyi from my friend that works at cabela's. all of the Herter's brand brass cased ammo is going to be S&B.
    I would like to try some of the S&B primers. If they are the same as what they use in their ammo they leave almost no residue in the 30 carbine S&B I have.

  4. #24
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    I realize this thread has been dormant for a while, but the following information may be helpful to someone. I had the same issue as the OP regarding the S&B SR primers on the Hornady LNL AP. The primer slide would hang open and required a fair amount of fiddling to get it to slide home.

    I removed the primer system (full of primers) multiple times trying to figure out the problem. The press ran fine with CCI, Winchester, Federal, and Wolf primers. The S&B LP primers fed with no issues, previously. The S&B SR primers were getting under the lip of the primer magazine tube on the press and pushing it upwards.

    Someone posted a similar issue with their LNL AP and that they moved the shoulder on the lower portion of the primer magazine tube upwards to allow the tube to sit lower in the holder, decreasing the gap between the bottom of the primer magazine tube and the primer slide. I don't have a lathe, so I couldn't turn the shoulder precisely. I used a file to taper the lower portion of the primer magazine tube until it sat flush with the underside of the holder that mounts on the press. This alleviated the issue and the S&B SR primers have fed fine since.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

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    Guardian thx for the info. I haven't used my Lock N Load in quite some time. It broke down on me a few weeks after the original post. Sent it to Hornady, got it fixed for free and haven't done any serious handloading in a few months.

    Following advice I read here or another forum. Somebody experiencing the same problem claims using shim stock under the slider assembly, slightly raising it will fix the problem. Don't know if it will work though. Best I recall it was one of those "friend of mine" posts. The poster was either posting second hand advice or best guessing what he thinks will work. Makes enough sense that it will be worth a try.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master 1874Sharps's Avatar
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    We all have had our individual experiences with S&B primers and brass in various sizes and through different loading machines. My shooting buddy and I have picked up alot of S&B pistol brass of the years and a primer does seat hard in the brass I have scavenged if the primer pockets are not cleaned and the swage cut away. But that has been true for any brand of primer I have tried.

    A word about S&B: They started out in business about two hundred years ago making those newfangled things called percussion caps. As the years rolled on and Boxer and Berdan primers became the cutting edge technology, they started making metalic cartridges over a hundred years back. They make a heck of alot of 'em, too! They are an old and well established company that makes quality ammo and components (in my opinion).

    The only pain I have experienced with S&B was with a box of S&B 7mm Mauser ammo (173 grain). The ammo shot quite well through my vintage Mannlicher-Schoenauer Mod. 1952, but I found the groove on the case head had not been cut deep enough. I wound up having to use a 7.5 Swiss shell holder to reload them. But for the value, great performance of the ammo, etc., I figured the minor inconvenience was worth it. It gnaws a bit on me, though, because it should have been cut right.

    I have mainly been loading my S&B primers through a Dillon progressive Model 550 and have had no feeding or seating issues. It appears to my eye that S&B rounds the base (bottom) end of their primers a little more than other makers. I can understand how this and other small differences could cause various difficulties from machine to machine. In an absolute sense even two primers that come off the assembly line at plant XYZ are not the same (but they are plenty close enough nearly all the time). Interestingly enough, my best load in my target Mauser with heavy Shilen barrel and Bell and Carlson aluminum pillar bedded target-varmint stock uses S&B primered loads. Not a single complaint there!
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  7. #27
    Boolit Master

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    1874Sharps thx for your input. Over the years I've had favorable results with S&B factory ammo. I'm just a bit perplexed on their primer situation. Takes considerably more elbow grease to seat primers in their fired brass. Despite the problems with S&B primers in an auto primer feed myself and others have had. So far, so good as far as reliability. I haven't had a dud.

    The tightest cluster in my lifetime about 10+ years ago. Was with S&B 22/250, 55gr SP's. Shot in a Remmy BDL with the factory varmint barrel. The 5 shot 100 yard cluster was easily covered with a quarter, just a tad outside a nickel. Afterward I had two strays with the remaining 15rds. Age, declining health and eyesight I could never shoot like that again.

    I can't knock S&B's ammo but I really wish they could fix the problem with tight primer pockets. Hopefully somebody at S&B has heard enough complaints similar to mine on the auto prime problems, tight primer pockets and they correct it. My guess, if and when the craziness ends, hoarding stops and ammo prices are set by a competitive market again. S&B will likely fix the problems if they want to continue making a dent in the US market.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Azrednek, I dont hold out much hope for relief on tight primer pockets. This problem has been going on since at least the early 90's when I bought a bunch of S&B in .303 Brit.

    G

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Bought some Tula and S&B last spring but have not used them. I sort and segregated about 2500 45 ACP by head stamp recently and processed the S&B, Federal, and Winchester one at a time. S&B and Winchester have both given me trouble with tight pockets numerous time. I reamed the pockets of all the S&B. As far as S&B's ammo, I have never had a problem. I read somewhere that their rifle brass was not annealed well and did not hold up to reloading as good as the Priv Partisan 7.62x54R brass I use.

  10. #30
    Boolit Mold
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    While I'm not totally sure, I believe these S&B primers are made slightly off by the Chinese, just to drive us crazy.

    Apparently it is working.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    This experience implies that S&B brass has smaller primer pockets than other brands ~ all the other postings are indicative of larger primers. Just an observation here, but if both of these are the case, how could S&B load their factory ammo? Are we doing a little gratuitous slamming of the company or piling on? What did S&B ever do to you guys? Just wonderin'...

    Froggie

    Gee Whizz reports they are undersized primer pockets. That is exactly what I thought until I tried to correct them.

    I don't think they are smaller primer pockets. I can't address the size of the primers because I have never used them.

    I have had so much trouble seating CCI primers into S&B brass that I no longer try. I toss every S&B case I come to into a separate bucket.

    I have measured the primer pockets to the best of my ability. I don't have an inside mike so I can't report the exact diameter of the primer pockets but I can report that using the same tool, they are exactly the same size as REM and WIN. I think it is safe to assume that my error measuring the S&B will be the same as the error when I measure the others.

    A primer pocket uniforming tool will not remove anything from either the sides or the bottom of the S&B primer pockets. Crimp removal tools also remove nothing. RCBS primer pocket swaging tool also does nothing.

    What I have discovered is that if I seat primers slowly they will tip to one side and hang. If I remove one tipped sideways before it is crushed and pull the primer with needle nose pliers and then inspect the primer pocked I find a small burr on the edge of the pocket.

    The problem is that I don't know if the burr was already there of if it was nicked in the seating process.

    I may get motivated enough to decap only ten or twenty of them and inspect them under the glass. (But probably not. )

    NOTE: I have experience ONLY with .38 special S&B cases.
    Last edited by williamwaco; 10-20-2013 at 06:47 PM.
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  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooch View Post
    I recently bought 1000 each of Tula Lge. Rifle & Lge. pistol primers. I have loaded some but not fired any. They seemed to seat just like the CCI but again, I haven't fired any. Any comments on the Tulas?? Oh, thanks for the heads up on the S&B primers!
    Tula's have been fine for me,i have fired around 1500 in the last 2 months and haven't had any issues(knock on wood).

  13. #33
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    Williamwaco,

    "NOTE: I have experience ONLY with .38 special S&B cases. "

    The same thing happens with .40 and .45 S&B cases. They're the only cases that consistently cause primer crushing and difficult seating on any and all of my presses. I watch for the telltale red seal around the primer pocket and donate them to the scrap brass box.

    David
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  14. #34
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by stepmac View Post
    While I'm not totally sure, I believe these S&B primers are made slightly off by the Chinese, just to drive us crazy.

    Apparently it is working.

    Sorry sir, but thatīs bulls*/t. They are made in Czech Republic, from domestic materials period. The "problem", correctly named difference, is a bit thicker and somehow harder brass used for the cups, compared to other brands. For some guns itīs plus, that you donīt need to bother with extended firing pin protrusion and pressure combos, in some guns itīs a PITA-namely those with light firing pin springs etc.
    So-the harder and thicker brass means more resistance while seating and also a bigger risk of making a burr in the pocket.

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Savage View Post
    Sorry sir, but thatīs bulls*/t. They are made in Czech Republic, from domestic materials period. The "problem", correctly named difference, is a bit thicker and somehow harder brass used for the cups, compared to other brands. For some guns itīs plus, that you donīt need to bother with extended firing pin protrusion and pressure combos, in some guns itīs a PITA-namely those with light firing pin springs etc.
    So-the harder and thicker brass means more resistance while seating and also a bigger risk of making a burr in the pocket.

    Your sarcasm meter is broken me thinks.

    I love s&b primers for their small packaging like cci.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by azrednek View Post
    Guardian thx for the info. I haven't used my Lock N Load in quite some time. It broke down on me a few weeks after the original post. Sent it to Hornady, got it fixed for free and haven't done any serious handloading in a few months.

    Following advice I read here or another forum. Somebody experiencing the same problem claims using shim stock under the slider assembly, slightly raising it will fix the problem. Don't know if it will work though. Best I recall it was one of those "friend of mine" posts. The poster was either posting second hand advice or best guessing what he thinks will work. Makes enough sense that it will be worth a try.
    Let us know if it works!

  17. #37
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    Let us know if it works!
    Will do but it probably be December before I start doing any serious handloading. Currently I'm doing belted mags one at a time with my Rock Crusher. I cast, sized and lubed apx 1,000 9MM's recently I will likely began after hunting season. Weather permitting I will begin casting 44 and 45's about Dec 1 and will fire up the Lock N Load. I will fool around and see if I can get the Primer feed to work with S&B primers.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master VHoward's Avatar
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    I've never had an issue with the S&B primers I used. I use a Dillon SD b and an XL650. No issues in my guns either. The only S&B brass I've encountered were 9mm. I run them through the pocket swager and they are still tight, but primable.

    I'm not saying that anybody can't have gotten a bad bunch of them though. Just that I haven't had an issue with them myself.

  19. #39
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spawn-Inc View Post
    Your sarcasm meter is broken me thinks.

    I love s&b primers for their small packaging like cci.

    Easily it can be, I simply came across too much of chinese knock-offs off-topics lately.


    Back to primers-I just found out that primers that were pushed out of my german mfg Hoerneber 8x60R Kropatschek brass are almost drop-in fit into new 348 Win brass. Primed and de-primed a 308 Win case by Norma-again, itīs a no pressure thumb fit into 348 Win brass, and very little resistance (still easily manageable even without the use of a nail (the one of the thumb )) into 308 case by Winchester. Have no Remington brass on hand now, but I remember about the same priming resistance as of Winchester brass. It seems just that US made brass is on the generous hole tolerances, while european made brass is a bit tighter and SB primers are made to the tightest tolerance on the shaft part.
    Might the more generous tolerances and softer material of primer cups of US mfg makes some difference in prevention of lawsuits from ********* who would horse unaligned primer in while looking down the case mouth what the heck is there it wouldnīt seat...

  20. #40
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    I got to thinking the other day about some 7.62x54r S&B brass I have. It is tough to seat primers as others report on here. A large pistol primer fit those pockets just right when I tried them. Measured, the pockets are about .02" shallower than the PPU brass I had out. If they make their primers for those pockets, then I would really wonder how they would do in other brands of brass.

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