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Thread: S&B brand primers BIG DISAPPOINTMENT!!!

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    S&B brand primers BIG DISAPPOINTMENT!!!

    I've been hand loading since the early 70's and the only significant difference I had previously experienced with primer brands were with shot shell primers. As far as metallic hand loading with non-magnum primers. I have yet to find one brand superior to another as far as accuracy or reliability. Of the thousands I've loaded over the years I have had very few duds. Possibly if I were still shooting through a crony I may have seen something significant. As far as group size on paper I have not seen a difference in any brand including Wolf.

    I got an email spam with a bargain on S&B brand primers a couple of months ago. Being a tight wad and seeing a bargain I sprang for a thousand each of small and large pistol and another batch of small rifle.

    Guess it is a lesson learned from the school of Hard Knox. The S&B primers have been frustrating to load. So far I haven't had any to the range so I can't speak on their reliability. I can't get the S&B's to operate without constant jams in my Lock'N'Load set-up. The slider constantly sticks. By alternating the S&B primers in the tube with every other primer either a Remmy or Winchester. The slider worked a bit more reliably but two consecutive S&B's the slider would not go home.

    Adding to the frustration the S&B's seem to be inconsistent in size. One might need considerable force to properly seat and the next slides right in. I had three of the small pistol primers go into place so easy feeling no drag at all. I pulled the brass from the progression and stuck them aside. Tinkering the next day I de-primed the live S&B primers and replaced them with Winchester primers. The Winchester primers felt as though they seated normally with just the usual amount of drag I usually feel. The brass, multi fired 38 Spec, two pieces of Winnie and one Remington. I feel that the loose fit was a result of the primer and not the brass' primer pocket.

    In summary I can say I got what I paid for but it will be the last batch of S&B primers I will buy regardless of the price. I'm stuck with them now as they can't be returned. Guess it will be back like the good ol'days with a single stage press. Loading the primers by hand sitting in front of the TV because they simply refuse to work in my Hornady's auto primer feed. I can almost hear my wife again saying "are you sure they wont explode".

    I guess with the shortages beginning again I could easily sell them but I do like sleeping nights. Hopefully I just got a bad batch and every Tom, Dick and Harry that took advantage of the sale price doesn't have to deal with the same problems I have had so far.

  2. #2
    In Remembrance
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    You could explain your difficulties and sell at a fair price. I'd take them under those circumstances for back-up primers. I suspect components will be targeted soon by anti-gunners.

  3. #3
    Boolit Man
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    I recently bought 1000 each of Tula Lge. Rifle & Lge. pistol primers. I have loaded some but not fired any. They seemed to seat just like the CCI but again, I haven't fired any. Any comments on the Tulas?? Oh, thanks for the heads up on the S&B primers!
    Last edited by Pooch; 12-30-2012 at 10:56 AM. Reason: additions

  4. #4
    Boolit Bub
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    I bought a few thousand small pistol primers last week at a local gun shop. So far I've loaded up 50 .357 mags and 50 9mms. They both loaded and shot just as any others I've loaded. They are just as hard as CCI primers, if not harder. My USPSA limited gun won't light them reliably, it only likes Federal primers. I've not tried to run any through a progressive press yet. Not had much luck with Lee's primer system.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


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    As much trouble as I've had crushing primers while trying to seat them in S&B brass this doesn't surprise me. I try to cull all S&B into the scrap brass bin before it gets to the press. The red primer sealer makes it easier to cull them.

    David
    Sometimes life taps you on the shoulder and reminds you it's a one way street. Jim Morris

  6. #6
    Love Life
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    Thanks for the heads up on the S&B primers. Once I run out of my various CCI, Remington, and Winchester primers I will be using the Tulas exclusively. If you get a chance give those a try.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooch View Post
    I recently bought 1000 each of Tula Lge. Rifle & Lge. pistol primers. I have loaded some but not fired any. They seemed to seat just like the CCI but again, I haven't fired any. Any comments on the Tulas?? Oh, thanks for the heads up on the S&B primers!
    I recently bought 12K Tula SPP and 5K Tula LPP. I have loaded over 2K of the SPP and 1K of the LPP. I have only shot about 2-300 of each, but so far have not experienced any problems loading or firing them. They have loaded just like my CCI or Win primers, and they have all gone bang when I squeezed the trigger! I have not chrono'ed any of the loads, but 25 yd accuracy does not appear to have suffered. So far I am happy with them. Especially @ $19.80/K at Powder Valley. I plan to buy more as soon as my "fun money" account recoveres from Christmas.

    http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
    Last edited by km101; 12-30-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master plmitch's Avatar
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    I had bought 5,000 S&B LR primers from Grafs back in May of this year and have loaded and shot just under 2,000 so far. Not one problem with them at all, for the price they are great! I will not use any S&B brass, but the primes are great.
    Life's hard, even harder if your stupid.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by David2011 View Post
    As much trouble as I've had crushing primers while trying to seat them in S&B brass this doesn't surprise me. I try to cull all S&B into the scrap brass bin before it gets to the press. The red primer sealer makes it easier to cull them.

    David
    This experience implies that S&B brass has smaller primer pockets than other brands ~ all the other postings are indicative of larger primers. Just an observation here, but if both of these are the case, how could S&B load their factory ammo? Are we doing a little gratuitous slamming of the company or piling on? What did S&B ever do to you guys? Just wonderin'...

    Froggie

  10. #10
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    I loaded some CCI primers and had nothing but FTF with my j frame 38s but my n frame mod 28 eats them like candy.

    Gonna change the spring in my Js and see what happens

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy Nocturnal Stumblebutt's Avatar
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    Interesting info on S&B primers, although I may still try them since there seems to be conflicting info on here. But we'll see, we're under a foot of snow right now and I won't be shooting until some of that melts, so the 2500 WSP I have on hand may last me until the shortage is over.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    ` What did S&B ever do to you guys? Just wonderin'...Froggie
    S&B has not done anything to me with the exception as I stated in my original post. I have not tried the large pistol or small rifle yet and hopefully I do not encounter the same problems. I have no complaints about their ammo and have shot up plenty of it.

    My best shooting bud however had problems with reliability with S&B 380 in his Bersa. Shooting ammo from the same box he had problems with. The S&B ammo worked perfectly in my Makarov and Gamba HSC. My shooting bud's Bersa worked just fine on the same outing with my handloads and some other factory ammo but I just can't recall the brand.

    Despite the recent problems with S&B primers. I will still buy S&B ammo when it is only a buck or two more than steel cased brands such as Wolf or that dirty shooting stuff from Cabela's.

    I have bought hundreds of rounds of S&B ammo and reloaded their brass. The 9MM both Luger and Mak, 380 and 38 Special. The brass' primer pockets are tight but I've found by chamfering a generous taper into the entrance of the pocket I can seat a primer but it does take a bit more elbow grease to seat them. So far to the best of my recollection. I have yet to seat a S&B primer into S&B brass. The S&B brass I previously loaded were primed with either Winchester or Remington brand primers.

    In summary, S&B has not done anything to me with the exception of the garbage small pistol primers I recently purchased. I strongly discourage anybody from using S&B small pistol primers with an auto primer feed.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I once had this issue with CCI primers and my Dillon 650. These were CCI primers before Federal bought them out. I no longer have the issue any longer and my 650 seems to feed them fine. I never had any issue with any primer when I was loading them on a Rock Chucker. I've loaded Tula, Wolf, Rem, Win, CCI, and Fed primers and the 650 no longer seems to have any issues... I wonder if the S&B primers you have are just something your press does not like.. It happens..

    Oddly enough, I don't seem to have the same problems loading S&B or the AMERC brass on my 650.. other people complain about these cases on their presses so it's just one of those "luck of the draw" things..

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master
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    "Quirks" between components and tooling do occur, as do quirks between components. For several years, the primer pockets of the W-W 9mm brass we fired for training and practice at work refused to admit ANY SPP I tried seating with my RCBS tooling--swing arm, ram priming unit, didn't matter. When I got the Ponsness-Warren P-200 in 2001, I thought it would make a difference--no soap. No amount of chamfering made a difference, either. I scrapped the W-W brass, and went with R-P. Problem over.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  15. #15
    Love Life
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    Have you tried swaging the primer pockets since SP and SR primer pockets have the same SAAMI dimensions? That might help, but in the end it might no be worth it.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Love Life View Post
    Have you tried swaging the primer pockets since SP and SR primer pockets have the same SAAMI dimensions? That might help, but in the end it might no be worth it.
    I haven't tried swaging the primer pockets yet and in all honesty I have enough 9MM and 38 Special brass. I probably wont go through the trouble. Years ago I had some US GI 45 ACP marked FA from the 30's. I believe the FA is Frankford Arsenal, somebody please chime in if I'm wrong.

    The primer pockets on all the FA marked brass were just slightly to small and despite chamfering the large pistol primers would be slightly crushed if I used way to much leverage to seat them flush. Using a RCBS swager tool that is made for removing the military primer crimp did open the pockets enabling me to properly seat a primer. It worked but it was a time consuming process and in short a real pain in the donkey. For all the trouble, best I recall most of the old surplus ammo started splitting and few if any were reloaded more than once.

    Back in those days I was sole support and feeding a family of six. I had considerably more time than money back then and didn't mind. Back in the 70's we couldn't go online and order brass. About the only way to accumulate brass in the 70's was buying live ammo.

    Off subject slightly!! My spell check indicates swage, swaging, swager etc as misspelled. I even tried swadging, swadgeing and various alternatives using my imagination all to no avail. Pressed my curiosity button, any English majors out there??

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    Swage, swaging, and swager are correct. Your spell checker is flagging them (as does mine) because they aren't in its dictionary; if you right click on the flagged word, you'll get a context menu with options to ignore, etc. -- including "add to dictionary" or something similar. Make certain the word is spelled correctly, and add it -- and it'll never flag again.

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by azrednek View Post
    In summary, S&B has not done anything to me with the exception of the garbage small pistol primers I recently purchased. I strongly discourage anybody from using S&B small pistol primers with an auto primer feed.
    azredneck, I didn't mean to come across as strident as I seem to have been taken. It just seemed like the best thing to do would have been inform S&B of your problem and see whether it was something they knew about (or not) and might have been willing and able to fix. When the other poster all but called their brass total junk without any real substance to his statement, I just had to wonder out loud what was going on. No offense was meant, just wondrin'. My personal interest is that I'd like to be able to use their 32 S&W Long ammo with the idea of reusing the brass (with their primers?)

    Regards,
    Froggie

  19. #19
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    This experience implies that S&B brass has smaller primer pockets than other brands ~ all the other postings are indicative of larger primers. Just an observation here, but if both of these are the case, how could S&B load their factory ammo? Are we doing a little gratuitous slamming of the company or piling on? What did S&B ever do to you guys? Just wonderin'...

    Froggie
    The only S&B ammo I've fired is .308. No experience with their primers.
    No problems with the ammo at all until I went to reload it. Using Federal 210's I had quite a few crushed primers. The pockets on the cases I had were very tight.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    I have used over 10k each of S&B Small Rifle and Small Pistol with no problems, but I am not using a tube feed primer system, I am using RCBS's Primer Strip system.

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