boolit selection for k-31

[waksupi]

I'm starting to believe in re-incarnation. And exorcism.

[bravokilo]

I suggested to Mike in a PM that he could have answered his question by doing a search. His repy was

"i did do a search for cast boolits for my small bore k31, i did not fine specific data on small bore , so i asked. "

Sooo, I decided to run a search and see what I could find. I discovered what I already knew ie: The barrel dimensions of K 31's tend to be on the small end for a "normal" .30 cal ( .300x.308 ). I posted the information to show that the barrel the specs for his second K 31 are closer to the average. That would lead me to believe that most of the already mentioned boolit choices should work. My search was by no means comprehsive and I am sure a search of the other forums that I provided would yield a lot more information on the subject.

BK

[bravokilo]

I'm starting to believe in re-incarnation. And exorcism.

Alright, alright, I think I have made my point The information is out there-if you are willing to look for it.

I'm outta here.

BK

[mike in co]

Alright, alright, I think I have made my point The information is out there-if you are willing to look for it.

I'm outta here.

BK

didn't take him long to leave.....heck he even believes he proved something other than his inability to read the english language and do research.
i asked questions on the military cast bullet loads board...specific questions on sizing and boolit selection.......he produces a miss mash of data....little of which is relevent to my question. he "proved" his point by ASSuming,infering, and averaging....ohhh and using "what I(he) already knew " .......if i (me) knew...i won't have been asking......duh......

so why did all this occur ???

bk has decided since i questioned some of what joe b has done, that bk should show the world what a poor person i am.
he could not prove joe's point, could not prove his own point, could not /did not prove statements in his pm's, so his alternate was to attempt to embarrass me in public............
a great waste of band width and still proved nothing...
excorcism yes reincarnation...please no

mike in co

[4060MAY]

Mike
hopefully to answer your question, my K-31 is tight .307x.296, I couldn't get anything I had to shoot. I had Mountain molds make me a copy of the Saeco 301, casting at .295x.308, I put the gas check on at .308. then I tried another bullet that never worked for mein any other gun, the Lyman 308329, sized at .309 but works really well in this rifle. I use a modified lee collet die for loading.

I also made a sizing die to size the nose on a Saeco 301, to .295 and the base to .308 what a PIA thats when I sent one of the bullets to Dan and he made the mold.

The lyman with 41grs of 4350(pulldown) will group 1-1.5" OH at 50 yds.

I could post a picture if it would help

hope this helps

[chuebner]

Mike,

Maybe this will help. I have 2 K-31's that both slug at .297 x .307. I also have three Lee RN molds in 160, 180 and 200gr that all cast a bullet that measure .298 on the nose and .310 on the bands. Sized to .309 and lubed with Lee LA, these shoot most excellent in my rifles.

Suggested loads.

10-12gr Unique
14-16gr AL2400
18-20gr RL7
18-20gr SR4759
18-20gr AA5744

At 50yd. these will shoot 1"-1 1/2" groups with issue sights. Occasionally I can put all shots within the 10-ring on a SR-1 target at 100yd.

Hope this helps.

Charlie

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Charlie,

Could you give a little more detail on the Lee molds? Specifically, the Lee numbers for them? I'm interested as well, since I have a K31.

Mike,

Ignore the hecklers. Anyone with a brain realizes forums are for communication and you have every right to ask a question. As they used to say in the Army: "There's no dumb questions, only questions you don't know the answer to."

So ask, get answers and ignore the noise from the cheap seats. For my part, I'm learning from your post and probably riding on it. I appreciate the fact you've asked a question.

Regards,

Dave

[mike in co]

ok..i'm not a fan of having bullet bases below the neck...no gas checks below the neck.
i tried a 311359 which is about 135 gr sized 308 and the 308 hit the throat and drove the boolit into the case and sized the first band a bit.

i'll have to look at the 311291...and 284...but i aint holding my breath...
i think i'll go post a what if in the gb forum....

[45 2.1]

The RCBS 308-165-SIL fits this cartridge well, especially the 1911s. The K31s have an ugly throat in them with excessive neck length in front of the cartridge neck. Little can be done in that regard to give super match accuracy, but they will give M.O.A. when loaded properly.

[Bob S]

IME, 311284 and 311291 (including one Ideal U311291) won't work in the "usual" K31. They must be *very* deep-seated to chamber. That U311291 shoots like a house afire in the 1911-types, though. The pic is ten rounds prone with sling in a 96/11 long rifle, at 100 yards. Charge is 16 grains 2400.



Resp'y,
Bob S.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Dang Bob,

Nice target. And I wasn't going to buy one of those 1911's. Oh well. Maybe I'll just have to change my mind.

Dave

[Bob S]

Dave:

I highly recommend them, especially if you are going to shoot cast bullets. They have real throats, and if you have any .30 cal bore riders that are undersized on the forepart for American .30 cals, they will probably work great in the Swiss 1911-type long rifles. They don't take much tinkering (with the rifle or the load) to get shooting some outstanding groups and scores.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[mike in co]

311410......yep 133 gr plain base.....
oal on my gun is 2.710 with top band touch that thing they call a throat !


while similar to 311359...less pointy....

oal .830
sized .309
base of point is .306 !!!!!!

guess i gotta try some 2400/4227/reddot

[jballs918]

well after reading this very sprited post, i also have a k-31 that the bore is 307. that sees to be pretty common. so i will keep looking here every now and then to see what they come up with thanks guys for doing the leg work

[Ricochet]

The K31s have an ugly throat in them with excessive neck length in front of the cartridge neck.

Huh? Exactly what do you mean by that?

Mine has about 1/16" of extra neck-sized chamber in front of the case mouth. Then it abruptly goes to .308". No taper whatsoever, it's a square shoulder. .308" jacketed bullets can go another 1/8" or so into that throat before the lands stop them. Anything over .308" stops against the shoulder before reaching the rifling, and gets shaved down to .308" when it starts moving.

[45 2.1]

Huh? Exactly what do you mean by that?

Mine has about 1/16" of extra neck-sized chamber in front of the case mouth. Then it abruptly goes to .308". No taper whatsoever, it's a square shoulder. .308" jacketed bullets can go another 1/8" or so into that throat before the lands stop them. Anything over .308" stops against the shoulder before reaching the rifling, and gets shaved down to .308" when it starts moving.

You just described exactly what I said. What would you call it? Its certainly not pretty is it. I rate that as ugly myself, it has just about everything needed to rack up a boolit.

[Ricochet]

Yeah, it's a lousy throat design for a boolit. I just wasn't sure what you meant by the too-long neck, it being a very short throated barrel.

Works great with .308" jacketed bullets. But they have to be seated very short.

[chuebner]

Dave

C309-160R, C309-180R and C309-200R are the mold designations. I cast these out of wheelweights with a little tin added and cast hot so the bullets are frosty looking. Tumble lube with Lee Liquid Alox, add gascheck and size to .309 with Lee push through sizing die. All three of these molds cast .298 on the nose and .3105 on the bands. The throat on my 1953 K31 is the tightest and I have to seat bullets for this rifle quite deep but accuracy is great. My 1946 K31 can take a bullet seated .125 farther out then the '53. I also use Lee dies, a Lee press and Lee 20lb. dipper pot. I'm kinda sold on their products if you didn't notice.

Charlie

[chuebner]

ok..i'm not a fan of having bullet bases below the neck...no gas checks below the neck.
i tried a 311359 which is about 135 gr sized 308 and the 308 hit the throat and drove the boolit into the case and sized the first band a bit.

i'll have to look at the 311291...and 284...but i aint holding my breath...
i think i'll go post a what if in the gb forum....

Mike,

I have heard reference to this before but do not understand the reasoning of not wanting the bullet base below the neck. Both of my K31's require bullets seated very deep in order to chamber properly but they are also very accurate.

I have the 311291 in both SC and DC and the 311284 in SC. These cast too large on the nose to work well in the K31 but shoot great in my 03A3.

Charlie

[trooperdan]

Mike,

I have heard reference to this before but do not understand the reasoning of not wanting the bullet base below the neck. Both of my K31's require bullets seated very deep in order to chamber properly but they are also very accurate.

I have the 311291 in both SC and DC and the 311284 in SC. These cast too large on the nose to work well in the K31 but shoot great in my 03A3.

Charlie

Charlie, there are a couple of reasons for folks wanting to keep the base in the neck, the main one being to avoid lube contamination of the powder! I've never experienced the other reason but have often heard it mentioned; some claim the gas check might come off before firing! Certainly the Hornady or Gator checks won't have that probelm. If it ever existed at all it might have been with the old style Lyman checks