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Thread: Add copper to your alloy for tougher CBs.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
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    Add copper to your alloy for tougher CBs.

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    Last edited by popper; 03-17-2015 at 11:16 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
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    Get your copper sulfate at farm animal feed stores. Even cheaper from commercial chemical warehouses. The 50 pound bags are typical for cheaper than dirt prices when compared to the small retail quantities. ... felix
    felix

  3. #3
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Very interesting, popper. Thanks for the info.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master madsenshooter's Avatar
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    I'll volunteer to test the hardness Popper. PM sent. Or rather, is about to be.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
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    I use copper sulfate to rid the swimming pool of algae and other dangerous stuff. I have tons of it for boolits if anybody wants some. If Corky (Sundog) wants to play with his pool and/or lead, he is hereby notified. Actually, we have enough lead based babbit with plenty of antimony, arsenic, and copper. ... felix
    felix

  6. #6
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    I'm going to give this method a try to remove zinc from some contaminated WW lead I was given.

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  7. #7
    Boolit Master John in WI's Avatar
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    That is really some good stuff. I tried alloying copper (metal) with tin, and dilluting that into my boolit alloy. I didn't get real far on it. It's workable (I think), but I didn't really have a good way of doing it (a good heat source and crucible)

    But this idea is really slick--doing it as an oxidation/reduction reaction. Thanks a lot for posting that.
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  8. #8
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    More of a substitution reaction than redox, no? Neat nonetheless, thanks again Popper for sharing your "outside the box" ideas. Might be an excellent way to get rid of zinc in WW alloy which doesn't contain much tin anyway. After some experience, one should be able to approximate the copper going in by the amount of sulfate produced, then adjust as necessary with Pb/Sb/Sn to achieve final desired mix.

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  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
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    Hmm might have to give this a try

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    If I understand this correctly, I can take zinc contaminated alloy, stir in CuSO4, and it will remove the zinc and replace it with copper, then I can stir the copper rich alloy into WW alloy to harden it? Sounds like I need to start contaminating my alloy with a known amount of zinc. Will it only replace the zinc that will dissolve into the alloy? What about the oatmeal slush on top, what happens to that? Will more copper dissolve into Pb than Zn will? Tell me more.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master John in WI's Avatar
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    Hi Gear--I think it formally is an oxidation/reduction. It looks to me like you have Cu 2+ --> Cu 0 and tin 0 (or Zn 0) going to tin 2+ or Zn 2+. At least that was my understanding of the original post. That you can put copper into the lead alloy, but only at the expense of tin or zinc. I think it's because copper is lower on the "activity series": http://www.grandinetti.org/Teaching/...ActivitySeries
    Too much of a good thing is an awesome thing!

  12. #12
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    When removing tin from the alloy the dross that you're pulling off isn't tin sulfate. It is tin oxide. Tin sulfate decomposes into tin oxide and sulfur dioxide at 712.4 F.

  13. #13
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    You might be thinking about H2S or Hydrogen Sulfide which is deadly but only in concentrated doses.
    Small amounts of h2s are naturally produced in your own body.
    Last edited by lwknight; 12-24-2012 at 03:28 AM.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    I wish there was a way you guys could write this stuff so I us imbeciles could understand and follow along.
    Not everyone here is an Einstein
    stuff like the --> 2 + blah- might as well be in Chinese too us not chemical types- at least it is to me
    I find this stuff interesting, but frustrated that I dont get it

  15. #15
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    I'm with you Jim.
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  16. #16
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    An Attempt to Simplify/Create a Narrative of the Chemical Process

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Flinchbaugh View Post
    I wish there was a way you guys could write this stuff so I us imbeciles could understand and follow along.
    Not everyone here is an Einstein
    stuff like the --> 2 + blah- might as well be in Chinese too us not chemical types- at least it is to me
    I find this stuff interesting, but frustrated that I dont get it

    Jim:


    Buy some Root Killer at Home Depot that is Copper Sulfate Based. This should be blue Crystals. Sprinkle a little on top of your melted Lead Mix (Wheel Weights, Lynotype mix, etc...), kind of like what you do with removing dross using a wax or MarvelLux as a flux.

    The Blue Crystals (Copper Sulfate - Root Killer) will change color from blue to White when placed on top of the Molton Lead because the Water molecules come out of the mix (Compound) when heated. Stir the white powder compound that used to be Blue Copper Sulfate into your molten lead, bring up all the stuff on the bottom and in the mix. If there is Zinc in your mix (Usually you don't want Zinc in your lead mix); the white powder turns grey because it has combined with the Zinc at a molecular level, creating a grey colored compound/powder on top of your molten lead. Scoop the grey off and throw it away. Repeat again, and again until the white powder does not turn grey. This is the process where some have stated this would be a good way to clean up a Zink contaminated Lead mix that will not cast properly.

    When the white powder turns grey, the Zinc that was in your mix has chemically combined with the Root Killer (Copper Sulfate) and it floats on top. The BONUS and why this gets interesting, is there are very small copper particles that are now left inside of your Molten Lead mix!! These small copper particles make the Boolits you cast much harder, allowing you to achieve higher velocities with Cast Boolits, or at least that's one of the objectives. You keep repeating the process, let's call it Root Killer/Copper Sulfate Fluxing; until the White Powder left from the Copper Sulfate no longer turns grey - all the Zink is now gone.

    Without the Root Killer process, you can not get the copper to be in the mix. Copper wants to just float and stay by itself, kind of like a copper jacket floating on top of molten lead, unless you trick it into mixing into the lead through a chemical process. That is what the Root Killer is for and does.

    Also, the down side is that if there is no Zink in your Molten Lead Mix, then the tiny pieces of copper do not go into the mix - Think of the Zink as a person paid to hold a seat for someone. Only one person can sit in the seat; and if the Zink was not there before, there is no seat for the copper to go to. So if your goal is to have small copper particles in your mix to harden the Cast Boolits, Zink has to be there, then it has to be removed because two people are not allowed to have the same seat.

    Hope this narrative description helps.


    Mustang

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    lwknight's Avatar
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    So does that mean that the little sparklies on top are brass?
    Sent from my PC with a keyboard and camera on it with internet too.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Ahhhh. Got it! Time to go play with a couple of muffins of contaminated alloy!

  19. #19
    Boolit Master madsenshooter's Avatar
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    Me too, but I probably got 80lb to decontaminate. Luckily I live near a sulpher creek from old coal mines, no problem with disposal of the waste. Like to see the EPA try to measure it!
    "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."

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  20. #20
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    Popper, Is that Lyman #2 you were starting with?
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