Quenching, aging & hardness

[ANeat]

Im in a position where I have a good supply of pure lead along with an almost equal supply of WW. My initial tests were an attempt to come up with some mix that would work for my bullseye shooting and use both. Shooting a 200gr bullet at less than 800fps doesnt call for a hard alloy by any means. As a matter of fact Ive had very good results with Star swaged SWC bullets and they are about 6 BHN. I was water dropping my bullets for convience and right after casting they were right at 10 bhn

I shot the 50/50 WW/Lead mix last year with very good results. One snag was that the molds I had were throwing bullets that were on the small side due to the softer mix. I had Ballisticast make me up an H&G 68 4 cavity mold that throws a .454 bullet with 50/50. I push it thru a .453 sizer and end up with a .4525 bullet. Using Lars red lube I can shoot hundreds of rounds between cleanings and get zero leading.

This year I will try some with even less WW added or even some with just a Lead/tin mix. I know other Bullseye shooters that have had great results doing just that.

I would like to get them to where the sizer is just barely touching up the OD of the bullet when lubing.

One point on some of the old theories that dont always prove out. Ive known shooters that would get leading and poor accuracy using WW or a softer alloy, they would keep adding Lino and bingo they would start getting good results. Their first thought would be the alloy was to soft. Well perhaps, one thing they didnt realise was that as they were getting an increasingly harder and harder alloy their bullets were dropping a little larger from thr mold. Also when they sized their bullets they would get more springback with the harder alloy and the end result would be a better fitting bullet, less leading and better accuracy.

[Ricochet]

That's an excellent point about different alloys giving different as-cast diameters.

[MTWeatherman]

Bass:
Thanks for the information. However I screwed up when I asked the question. I should have asked what was the initial maximum hardness after a couple of weeks or so. If you've got that information, would appreciate it. Also, thanks for the tip...I will PM Bob.

ANeat:
Were you water dropping that 50/50 mix? Do any testing on maximum hardness with it?

I don't want to leave the impression that I'm currently short on alloy. A $20 bill and a trip to a tire shop will get me a 5 gallon bucket of them. My concern is not the here-and-now but the future. They've taken the lead from gasoline, paint, and waterfowl shot among other things. Most of those efforts required a significant redevlopment effort from the manufacturers...to remove a hazardous substance (lead) from the environment. How long before wheelweights come under that scrutiny especially when substitutes so readily available? No development efforts involved...just switch to steel or zinc. Its already happened in Europe. The change could take place overnight in the good old U.S and I suspect the global warming issue will bring environmental issues to the forefront once again. I expect that you'll be seeing more and more of those steel and zinc wheelweights as manufactures anticipate the future. The good old lead WW will begin to totally disappear as the change is mandated and that change may not be very long in coming.

When (and I believe its when...not if) the supply of lead WW (but its the antimony part of the alloy thats important isn't it?) diminishes, the ability to alloy lead with and existing supply of old WW and heat treat likely will become more important. The "Antimony Man" will become an important source to all of us. However, we can't purchase arsenic very readily and even if not absolutely necessary, all evidence says it certainly helps the heat treating process. I can hoard lead WW but would prefer no more than a few hundred pounds.

Most of my needs are satisfied by plain ACWW and thats what I use. However, I could never get a 9mm to handle cast without heat treating (its a pressure and twist issue...not a bullet size)...or a .44 Magnum microgroove to shoot well over 1200 fps with PB (or a gas check over 1600 fps) without it (likely the rifle's ability to grip the bullet issue). Heat treating cuts the groups in my .223 in half. Linotype is hard to find, expensive to purchase new, and ship. I have no doubts that many, likely most on this board, have no need for heat treating. However, it definitely does have its uses. Whether or not you find it of value is extremely dependent on what you shoot or your ability to find high BHN substitutes.

I hope that lead WW remain readily available to us, our children, and grand children. However, I believe its folly to think they'll always be available just because they always have been. Planning for their eventual disappearance makes sense to me...hence my interest in the heat treating subject. Plain lead won't work for me...I'm not a black powder shooter.

[ANeat]

ANeat:
Were you water dropping that 50/50 mix? Do any testing on maximum hardness with it?

Yes I water drop them, they were coming out 10bhn checking the day I cast/quenched them. I hadnt really worried about it since but checked some I had cast back in the summer and they are now 20.9bhn. Way more than what I feel I need for the gun I was casting them for.

I agree that WW will be very hard to find someday and have been looking at ways of stretching what I have. The next time I cast a few it will be a lower % of WW in the mix and I will check them a couple of weeks after casting to see how they are aging.

Adam

[MTWeatherman]

ANeat:
Thats about what would be expected with water dropped straight WW. Looks like you just confirmed the theory that at least for 50/50 it's the hardening time that changes...not the actual hardness.

Interesting to see what the increase in hardening time might be...and what a further reduction in the WW percentage would bring. Please keep us posted on the results.

That's very useful information...thanks both for the research and the information.

[454PB]

As an example of the resoftening time:

I did some hardness testing for one of our forum members. He sent some quenched WW boolits that were right around 30BHN when I received them. I believe that was in May last year, in July they tested 22, and yesterday they tested 15.8.

[Ricochet]

That's interesting.

Someone has earlier reported that putting the boolits in a freezer delays hardening of quenched boolits. Bet it delays resoftening, too.

[Bass Ackward]

Someone has earlier reported that putting the boolits in a freezer delays hardening of quenched boolits. Bet it delays resoftening, too.

You win.