Scheme to get a 357 Handi...

[Goatwhiskers]

Just to clear the air, lot of talk about shotgun frames, rifle frames, SB1 and SB2. The older shotguns and the SB1 are made of cast iron which if it lets go does not stretch, it becomes shrapnel. The SB2 frame is made of investment cast steel which is one heck of a lot stronger and will stretch under excess loads, letting you know well ahead of time if you aren't paying attention to the more common overload signs. That's the reason for not putting rifle barrels on the older frames. Have a great CHRISTmas. GW

I'm not too fond of heavy loads in those light rifles anyway. It ain't velocity that kills, it's bullet placement.

[Jeff H]

Thanks but the link doesn't seem to work, wouldn't the thread still be there even if the item had sold?

Not necessarily. I believe you can now delete your thread if you have sold the item. I thought it was always that way because twice, when I bought something, the thread disappeared - very disconcerting.

It was three or four pages back earlier today when I looked. Just start scolling through the pages. That's how I found it. Not sure why the linl won't work because I copied it from the page when I was looking at it.

[Jeff H]

Just to clear the air, lot of talk about shotgun frames, rifle frames, SB1 and SB2. The older shotguns and the SB1 are made of cast iron which if it lets go does not stretch, it becomes shrapnel. The SB2 frame is made of investment cast steel which is one heck of a lot stronger and will stretch under excess loads, letting you know well ahead of time if you aren't paying attention to the more common overload signs. That's the reason for not putting rifle barrels on the older frames. Have a great CHRISTmas. GW

I'm not too fond of heavy loads in those light rifles anyway. It ain't velocity that kills, it's bullet placement.

I tried my 'Max mounted on an SB1 frame with the large firing pin (with light and then moderate loads) and problems popped up with primer flow even on moderate .357 MAG loads. Tried ONE especially thick-cupped SRP today on a moderate 'Maximum load and it locked the action up - primer flowed into the firing pin hole. Thats enough of THAT. My SB1 is definitely not suitable for this application so I will be moving the barrel to an SB2. Maybe the small firing pin-based SB1s are better, but what I found today is enough for me. The potential path for escaping gases looks to be pointed at my right eye.

[nanuk]

anyone know the hardest SRP that are not milspec?

I can't find any Nato type, but most others are available.

[Jeff H]

anyone know the hardest SRP that are not milspec?

I can't find any Nato type, but most others are available.

I cannot answer regarding the hardness of these, but the ones I referenced were Wolf Small Rifle "Magnum," which are supposedly "normal" strength but with a thicker cup to reduced slam-fires in ARs. Seemed like a good bet for the larger firing pin hole but it wasn't enough. I have fired all of ten of these Wolf primers and can't say much else about them.

The .357 Magnum loads I shot were primed with CCI standard small pistol primers. These flowed some but did not hang up the action.

[bmanis]

There was one at the last Birmingham Al gun show in 357 Max. It was in really good shape and already wearing a scope. The price was $250 if I remember correctly.

[Four-Sixty]

Site for the H&R Barrel Accessory Program.

http://www.hr1871.com/Support/accessoryProgram.asp

[drinks]

I had another barrel fitted last year, the total cost was over $165 and it took 7 weeks and I had to submit the paperwork twice.
I have no intention of doing more business with the bunch that owns Rem., Marlin, H&R and NEF now.
If you have some mechanical skills, buy a used barrel and do the minor fitting,(usually none) required to fit your frame.
I have some SB1/topper frames, but do not use cf rifle barrels on them.A friend has an SB1 with .45-70 barrel, but he loads to about 1100fps as he is not a recoil lover.
I have loaded my .45-70 NEF to 2300fps with a 320gr frgc, it is a bit stout but not bad, the 530gr postell at 1800fps does give me a headache after about 20 shots, my favorite is the 405gr hb at 1300fps, which is also the most accurate load I have found.

[Paul5388]

At one time, suggesting the use of a .357 Mag on a shotgun frame was enough to get banned from GBO (ask me how I know), even though H&R did that back in the 1950s. I think the .410 frame is smaller than the other frames, just like the 10 gauge isn't the same either.

The forged frame isn't a big deal, it's the firing pin size that makes all the difference. I think my long chambered .357 barrel is on a SB2 frame now, but it hasn't always been that way. The .357 Survivor I recently traded off had a much shorter chamber and wouldn't even take .360 DW brass. My current chamber will accept 1.50" brass, from the factory and I have shot 2.1" COAL rounds in it. Here's some of the loads I've shot, with a .44 Mag on the right and a .357 second from the right for comparison.



This is a 100 yard target using a 250 gr Beartooth GC bullet and 8.0 gr of 800X (I don't remember the significance of the two holes toward the bottom, maybe moved the scope from there?)



If you throw another 50 yards to the target into the equation, you'll see a pretty good rainbow in the trajectory, even with 1250+ fps MV on the 250 gr bullet. It should aslo be noted I used .360 DW brass for those shots. 8.0 gr of 800X is probably too much for Mag brass.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Thought I would never find one, but I stopped in the pawn shop and they had a used one that the pawn had just expired on, they didn't even have it priced yet. It is a factory SB1 frame/357 barrel with a synthetic stock and a cheap Simmons scope on it. I did a little negotiation and it walked out the door with me...

[Paul5388]

If it is a normal SB1 frame, it won't have any grinding marks on the frame where the forearm socket fits. The serial number will tell the age. Older ones may be able to use longer brass than the newer ones, but I don't know that it's a real advantage.

[BAGTIC]

What kind of expansion do you get on game with that bullet at that velocity?

[BAGTIC]

H&R told me they were made of the same metal and the difference was in the heat treating.

[Paul5388]

It may be the same metal, but one (SB2) is forged and the other (SB1) is cast.

I haven't shot any critters with those heavy cast bullets, but I would imagine it'll just punch through, about like any other heavy cast bullet. On small critters, a 125 gr JHP, even in .38 Special, seems to get their attention more than a big heavy bullet. I have been totally unimpressed with 200 gr .44 Special WCs and 200 gr H&G #68 in .45 ACP on smaller critters.

[jason f]

If you buy a factory 357 mag or 44 mag handi they come with small pin sb1 receivers. Been there and dine it with one reamed to Max with full house 180 xtp loads. Never had a problem.

[mr_nice_guy228]

Just picked up my new H&R 357 Mag today. Took three paychecks to get it. Still got to save a couple checks for a good scope but when I do get one I will report back here on how the new production ones shoot.

[Texantothecore]

I would go with an sb2 receiver because you may wish add barrels to it over the years. Getting what amounts to a new rifle for 140 bucks would be quite nice. There is at least one member here has done exactly and he has maybe one dozen barrels in his gun cabinet. He is quite pleased with the result.

[Whiterabbit]

Mr nice guy.

Now go over to GBO and rent the chamber reamer and flatface crown tool for $20 and turn it into a shorty-maxi. Even if you only shoot 38 spl out of it, its nice to have the option!

I just took the scope off mine and sold it so I can buy some receiver sights. WAY too accurate for scope shooting at my distances.

[mr_nice_guy228]

Well I already decided not to go with the Max chamber, but I am still considering chopping it at 16.5" and recrowning, and I'm still debating on rifle sighting it.
I did pick up a $45 Barska so I could shoot it for now and it is EXTREMELY accurate with 158 FMJ loads I got from a commercial reloader. Haven't played with it much but I'm loving it already.
After I get sights or a GOOD scope I can just throw the Barska on rimfire duty, so it wasn't totally wasted money.

[Jack D]

For what it's worth, I have a .357 mag. Handi Rifle on the SB1 frame. The attached is taken directly from the NEF website and clearly show that the .357 mag. and the .44 mag are on SB1 frames. All other rifle calibers are on SB2 frames. When I reload for this rifle, I use small rifle primers which are stronger than small pistol primers. This can be shown by weighing each on a powder scale. The SR primers are noticeably heavier which says thicker metals to me. I have a thread that documents my Handi Rifle and the loads that I have developed for it here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ndi-Customized