358 Winchester Cast Make Sense?

[youngda9]

http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/Gen...t%20Bullet.pdf

Some time ago, Wally Bator designed a pair of custom molds for the .35 bore size. The one I favor for my hunting
purposes, is the “Bator Heavy”, a designated 250 grain bullet, that, when lubed and gas checked, weighs 277 grains
from my mold. It is a close copy of the Lyman 358009 bullet, a long time favorite of .35 shooters. The lighter bullet,
designated 225, comes out of my mold, and ready to shoot, at 237 grains. This bullet has also shown great accuracy,
and is most likely the bullet weight the average hunter may want to try.

I use a .358 Winchester that I built on a VZ 24 action, using a 1-12 Douglas barrel. I use a Lyman aperture sight on
my rifle, to accommodate my aging eyes. To me, they have everything I need for game up to elk size up to two
hundred yards or more. And I don’t feel under gunned in the areas I hunt with big grizzly bear populations.

I have two good hunting loads for the heavy bullet. The first is with 41 grains of WC 852(F) military surplus powder.
This is near the burn rate of IMR 4895. I use a bit of shot buffer for a filler, to give 100% capacity. All of my bullets
are lubed with Felix’ World Famous Bullet Lube. These average 2077 fps. and will group at under an inch.
My other heavy bullet load is 43.5 gr. IMR 4895. I also use a bit of shot buffer in this load. Average speed is 2195 fps,
and this one stays in a 2.25” group. So, you can see by comparing the burn rates, these powders are indeed pretty close
in performance.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/pa...ll_charges.htm

For me the all time finest heavy weight .358 cast bullet is the Lyman..#3589. It has been renumbered no doubt to something like 358009.
But that doesn’t change the fact that at 290 grains with #2 lead, heat treated to 20 BNH or so...and the nose de-tempered as I described,
you have a cast bullet that will kill 90%+ of all the game on earth! It has the distinction of being one of the few of the first bullets ever offered when Ideal Company started in 1895...and still in the line. It’s still a winner because it delivers. 20 grains of 2400 under this 290 grainer will break 1500 fps for near 1500 ft. lbs of muzzle punch. Yet it is an easy load with around 10 lbs of recoil. 10 grns of Unique will go around 1250 fps and near 1000 lbs of energy, again a fine training load or just for woods loafing, yet it can easily knock over a deer or black bear...it’s in the 41 magnum range of power...why not? For a full hunting load 48grns/Acc 2520/2400 fps and 3700 ft.lbs. of muzzle energy. This is a top load and it has to be worked up to carefully. The best medium load I found in both the 356 and the 358, with this bullet is 22 to 23 grains of 2400 for near 1800 fps...accuracy with 2400 is superb with many of the heavy bullets in the 356/358 cases.

[armorer59]

I've used the 358315 (204) in the Rem and 358 and Whelen with good to excellent results. I've used the 358318 ( 250) in the 358JDJ contender and the358 and 35 Whelen with equal results. Several other molds have worked well also. Recoil goes up as bullet (boolit) weight increases!
Deer ,bear and ground hogs have fallen to the 200 grain slugs as far as 200 yards, so I don't THINK I need the added jolt from extra weight slugs. Besides, I'm cheap and can get 150 bullets from the same amount of lead it takes for 100 heavier ones!
I think the 358 Win IS a better cast bullet caliber than the .35 Whelen because it is a shorter more compact design. Velocities for optimum loads are not that far apart. JUST MY OPINION!!

+1 That's why I think a Remmy pump in .358 makes sense. Would also love a 99 Savage in .358 as well!

[Tatume]

Contacted Tom today so I figured I'd post what he told me. #36-210B is a clone of the RCBS 35-220-FN. #36-210A is an improved version of it w/ a larger meplat for hunting....

How many people have used RCBS 35-200-FN on game? How well did it perform? Is a larger meplat really needed?

Thanks, Tom

[gpalma]

A good friend has been using paper patched 9+1 alloy in his 358 since God made dirt. He loooves high shoulder shots on northern WI whitetails and has yet to recover a slug that starts out at 2200fps. The bulk of his shooting is within 100yds.

[dragon813gt]

I'm assuming it works just fine. You're going up to a 70% meplat from 55% so it shouldn't be a bad thing for hunting purposes. I ordered the #36-210A last night. If it doesn't work I will sell it and buy another style. I'm stuck on which heavyweight design to buy. I'm most likely going to order one w/ two styles in the same block. This will really screw up the spreadsheet I have for keeping track of the molds

[Pilgrim]

How many people have used RCBS 35-200-FN on game? How well did it perform? Is a larger meplat really needed?

Thanks, Tom

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Tom - I can't speak for others, but I've taken both moose and elk with the 35-200 -.358 Win. in a rebarreled BLR. Don't know if brown bears are on your list, but I'm sure it would work on those as well. It won't have the shock effect of a larger caliber, but penetration won't be your problem. FWIW....Pilgrim

[Tatume]

Hi Pilgrim,

I'm certain you're right about penetration. I'm thinking I may cast some bullets with soft points and hard bodies for use on smaller, softer game, particularly hogs and deer. The RCBS 35-200-FN does appear to have a small meplat (first thing I noticed when I took it out of the box).

Take care, Tom

[Pilgrim]

The moose I shot in northern BC was on a trip with shuz a number of years ago. The critter was about 100 - 125 yards away at a slight downhill angle. I placed the bullet at the juncture of neck and shoulder figuring it would take out the arteries above the heart. Don't know if it did or not, but I can tell you it exited taking out 4 ribs and leaving a 3-4" hole. This was after some 4' of penetration. The guide was shocked as moose normally stand there after you shoot them. They are nearly shock proof. In any case, this moose went down like he was hit by the hammer of Thor, with Thor swinging it! After a few minutes he jumped up and tried running off. I hit him again with the second boolit punching a perfect hole through the spine, then continuing through the right shoulder blade, and winding up under the skin of the right shoulder. The boolit weighed 213 gr. (BHN = 14) at the shot, and about 170 or so when found under the skin. Perfect mushroom.

[MBTcustom]

Hi Pilgrim,

I'm certain you're right about penetration. I'm thinking I may cast some bullets with soft points and hard bodies for use on smaller, softer game, particularly hogs and deer. The RCBS 35-200-FN does appear to have a small meplat (first thing I noticed when I took it out of the box).

Take care, Tom

You should follow the link in my signature line. That was exactly my line of thinking when I turned a deer into hamburger on the hoof. Be sure to read my thorough explanation on the last page. That meplat is plenty big enough.

[badbob454]

the 358 is a great gun for cast, as is the 35 rem , easy on powder , and the 35 whelen kicks butt with a 250+gr boolit..,

[Tatume]

You should follow the link in my signature line. That was exactly my line of thinking when I turned a deer into hamburger on the hoof. Be sure to read my thorough explanation on the last page. That meplat is plenty big enough.

That pretty well sums it up, doesn't it. I'll stick with my hard bullets. Thanks.

[nanuk]

+1 That's why I think a Remmy pump in .358 makes sense. Would also love a 99 Savage in .358 as well!

a Rem760/7600/6 would be perfect for me, in 358Win!

I now have new dreaming material!

[MBTcustom]

a Rem760/7600/6 would be perfect for me, in 358Win!

I now have new dreaming material!

If you have one of those rifles in a 308 based cartridge configuration, you are $250 and a couple weeks away from sweet sweet utopia.
JES will bore that baby out for you no problemo. Positively one of the best investments you can make on a firearm like that.

[white eagle]

starting to get my wings for my 358
I switched powders and made a boolit mold from Dan @ MM
the results are far better that I was anticipating will post results in another thread

[Artful]

I don't hunt much anymore but in my Savage 358 I used two boolits both from NEI

and

[lastborn]

TAG for later reference. I'm having a Vanguard 7mm-08 bored by Jess to .358 Win.

[richhodg66]

I have one of the Savage 99 Brush Guns in .358 (payed pretty dearly to get it) and it is a great shooter with the NOE clone of the RCBS 200 FN and 40 grains of IMR 4320. That's what I plan to deer hunt with this season.

I love Savage 99s and would prefer a 99 with the trigger safety and a pistol grip stock over the Brush Gun. I'm very seriously considering taking my 99E in .308 and having the rebore done. Seems like that would be as close to the perfect deer rifle as a guy could get.

[dragon813gt]

I'm very seriously considering taking my 99E in .308 and having the rebore done. Seems like that would be as close to the perfect deer rifle as a guy could get.

I know someone that had just that done. It's so not worth it

[richhodg66]

I know someone that had just that done. It's so not worth it

I'm not thinking one quite as nice as yours, that one is too pretty for a clumsy guy like me to carry in the woods. I also like the beaver tail forend of the Brush Gun variant and would want something like that on this one.

Our winter season here is cold and I prefer to have that trigger safety since I'm already gonna have that finger out of a glove to shoot. The tang safety would have me using my thumb which would still be covered in the gloves I use.

[nanuk]

If you have one of those rifles in a 308 based cartridge configuration, you are $250 and a couple weeks away from sweet sweet utopia.
JES will bore that baby out for you no problemo. Positively one of the best investments you can make on a firearm like that.

I'm north of the 49th.... no way to get a rebore down there, and the few up here are booked years in advance....

unfortunately....