358 Winchester Cast Make Sense?

[mworthan]

Hello everyone and Merry Christmas to start. I'm new here to the forum so this is my first official post.
I have come to the experts...
I need the definative answer on whether a cast bullet in a 358 Winchester can be a viable option in my new BLR for deer and elk out to 200yd ranges. I don't want to shortchange the cartridge's capability in both range and killing efficiency. I posted this in Marshall's forum as well.
I have poured over past posts in both this forum and others. I have worn Google out on this issue and can find nothing definative on whether this is a good idea. I do not cast my own but am looking to step into this new realm of reloading if it makes sense. I have reloaded cas in 45-70, 44 mag, 45 colt and 45 ACP but always someone elses pills.
I have looked at articles that talk about low velocity (= low energy at distance I assume) being the best you can hope for without the accuracy going to pot, about heat treating the bullets to soften the nose for expansion. I know the bigger calibers are naturals for cast but I am not sure that under a .40+ cal there is enough meplat to make this work.
I would like the flexibility (and independence) of casting my own but I need to hear from folks if this is a practical alternative or would I be better served buying a premium jacketed round?
I know that this makes absolutely no sense but I love the look of a cast bullet in a necked cartridge. This is neither here nor there, but it is like bullet porn for me. I wish I could make it work as a viable killer up to 200 yards or so. I had hoped the Saeco 352 or something similar (even custom designed) would provide that kind of energy you need at extended ranges and some expansion to overcome the smaller meplat. Still holding out hope someone can contribute their experience with the heavier bullets. Can you please enlighten me with an experienced viewpoint?
Thanks!

[Larry Gibson]

The RCBS 35-200-FN is my bullet of choice for my 35 Rem and also a couple 358s I've loaded them in. It has been used without fail on deer, elk and pigs. Myself and the others cast them soft and push to 2000 - 2200 fps which is quite sufficient for out to 200 yards.

Larry Gibson

[high standard 40]

I have a custom Mauser 98 in 358 Win and my load for it uses a 255gr bullet from "Mountain Molds". I get about 2200fps with accuracy of about 1.25" for 5 shots at 100 yards. With the large meplat on this bullet it is a real thumper on whitetails. My alloy is COWW + 4% added tin.

[Idaho Mule]

Welcome to the forum, you have come to the right place. The 358 is very popular here and you will get lots of good advice. I have been playing with a 356 Winchester myself. Shooting the RCBS 200 gr. flat nose but there are many other choices.

[mworthan]

I have a custom Mauser 98 in 358 Win and my load for it uses a 255gr bullet from "Mountain Molds". I get about 2200fps with accuracy of about 1.25" for 5 shots at 100 yards. With the large meplat on this bullet it is a real thumper on whitetails. My alloy is COWW + 4% added tin.

Is this a custom mold you developed through their software or is it a stock design? Nice looking boolit! That meplat looks about ideal.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I would think the 358 and cast is a match made in heaven

[waksupi]

I'm a big fan, and have used the chambering on deer, elk, bison and bear. It will do the job.
I have used the boolit design shown. I found it to have pretty good accuracy at 100 yards, but it was beginning to tip a bit, and out at 200 yards you could have shots far out of the group. A boolit with more bearing surface is a better design.

[high standard 40]

Is this a custom mold you developed through their software or is it a stock design? Nice looking boolit! That meplat looks about ideal.

Mountain does not have stock designs. Everything is custom designed by the buyer using the online software.

[TXGunNut]

Welcome to the forum. Seems to me cast boolits are an ideal choice for this cartridge give my experience with the 35 Remington. I'm sure that comes as no surprise to you considering where we are posting but a cartridge designed for medium velocity, medium range of medium caliber says "BOOLIT!" to me. Even if it doesn't work out the 45-70 and all the other cartridges you enjoy will benefit from your casting efforts, especially the 45-70. I got into casting because I couldn't buy a decent boolit for my 45-70, have come to realize that other cartridges I enjoy are happier with my home-made boolits than they ever were with store-boughts.

[runfiverun]

the nose is a bit long on that boolit.
i favor the saeco #248 we were working on a modification to the saeco boolit a bit back
to knock about 10 grs off the nose for a bit more meplat.
as you know there are ways around this too.
goodsteel started a thread a little bit ago [here in the hunting section] where the 35's get hashed over pretty well, what works and what works too good.
velocity in the 358 isn't an issue, controlling the boolits expansion is where the work is at.

[GLynn41]

absoposalutley just took a doe with 245 saeco and 38.5 H322

[mworthan]

Thanks for all the information so far. Well, I think that I will indeed throw my hat into the ring and start the aquisition of casting equipment and education. I would like to use the Mountain Mold program and have played around a little already. Can anybody who has played with it give me some critical 358 bullet dimensions that must hold for proper chambering. I am going to play with a design and see if you guys can pick it apart. Probably post a screen shot. This looks to be a lot of fun.
Thanks again for the input so far.

[white eagle]

I have been using cast in my 358 for quite some time now 3-4 years
anyway I am having one heck of a time getting repeatable accuracy
oh I can get one group that will be within my accuracy parameters but then it falls by the wayside with the next group
My hunting rifles need to be rite around 1" @ 100 yds ,3 shots.... every time
don't know what the answer is I have many different boolit designs hp and non hp
some say a match made in heaven but I guess that I haven't got my wings yet

[mworthan]

Well, after further research it sounds like I need to not waste time playing with bullet designs until i do some chamber and bore slugging. I will probably order a kit from Marshall and do some measuring. Does this sound about right? Once I have this down I will move into the casting forum and ask how to interprete my slug as it relates to a bullet design.

[x101airborne]

Oh My God!!! What?? Using CAST in a 358?? Herresey to the max. Shame on you. You should send me that 358 for disposal and I PROMISE no one will ever see that rifle again. Geese, cast in a 358........ The nerve.

Actually, I am jealous. I have plans with a forum member to have a small ring mexican mauser turned into a 358 and I cannot wait. Cast is exactly what I have planned for it. You have good sense and are in good company. Probably one of the best cast boolit cartriges around short of the 45-70. Very excited for you and let us know how it works out for you.
Thanks for sharing and being here.
Trey

[303Guy]

I'm real interested in the 35 cal for cast and have the idea that the 358 should be a good all round cartridge, and should be exellent for cast.

I'm trying to find either a 357 or 40/41 bore barrel to rechamber a 303 Brit for cast and paper patch boolits. A 357-303 would have almost identical case capacity to the 358 Win and with cast boolit limitations would probably be identical in performance with cast. I'm looking for 250gr boolit at 2000 fps or even 1800fps (depending on barrel length).

So I'll be looking forward to your results with interest. Umm .... so to answer your question - hell yes, cast in 358 makes a lot of sense!

[mworthan]

LBT... Someone recommended I try one of their stock designs as a starter. Anyone have experience with them?

[Piedmont]

LBT... Someone recommended I try one of their stock designs as a starter. Anyone have experience with them?

They are great molds. They are basically 'all body' molds (not bore riding) unless you get something special from him. This design is stronger but needs to be seated deeper than most designs because full bearing surface hits the throat sooner. This means you will be using lighter bullets if you don't want to seat them below the base of the neck. So pay close attention to the bearing length and overall length in his catalog and know how much neck and throat length you have to work with going in.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I was just thinking the other day (dangerous, I know) about how nice a 358 would work with cast. Flatter trajectory at 2000 fps or so without the recoil of the .40+ cartridges. Plentiful brass too, only downside I see is that there are not as many molds available as a .30, but one good one is all you really need. Only reason I think it didn't catch on better is that jacketed factory rounds were probably overkill for east coast woods ranges on whitetails, and the open range guys preferred flatter shooting magnums and .2Xs. 338 Federal looks interesting too, but I'd rather have the 358

[mworthan]

Thanks so far guys. I have been looking over the LBT moulds. I like the descriptive explanations that the owners gives concerning his molds and his own ideas regarding what contributes to accuracy. It looks like he is of the opinion that given a generous meplat and rifle velocities there isn't much concern with the killing efficiency of cast. Thanks for all of the help and encouragement.