New design Accurate Mold #51-320E in catalog

[451whitworth]

Back in Feb. i ordered a #51-450C mold from Tom @ Accurate Mold for my 50-110 WCF 1886. I have no idea what the original intended use was for this design but it looked perfect for 50-100-450 loads in my 1886. The nose profile was very close to the original Winchester designs. This was important because my big 50 can be difficult to downright impossible for the cartridge to make the bend from the loading gate into the magazine tube with the LBT LFN style flat nose bullet shapes (I know Turnbull modifies them so they can work with the modern LFN shapes). Being a traditional type guy i prefered the original nose designs for the looks and function. The 450gr. has bullet performed great but i wanted a 300gr. bullet close to original shape for the 50 express high velocity load that Winchester came out with when the switch was made to smokeless powder back in the day. After exchanging e-mails with Tom earlier in the week he suggested taking a driving band off the #51-450 which would leave a finished weight of around 368 gr. Like i said I'm kinda traditional so i began to study his catalog last night. There was a mold with a WFN design that was 325gr. called the #50-325G with a .3" nose length. This morning i e-mailed Tom to see if he could put the #51-450C .35" nose profile on the #50-325G body. This afternoon he e-mailed back that he did and that it was now in the catalog as #51-320E! Unbelievable customer service. He also has the #51-450C & the new #51-320E described as for 50-110 1886 use. Hats off to Tom and i had placed my order seconds after receiving his e-mail. Just a plug to consider Tom @ Accurate Molds for you next purchase.

[Kansas Ed]

Just ran across this thread, and thought I would respond. I was the one who worked with Tom to design the 51-450C and 51-450D. I was having an 1886 Browning converted to 50-100-450, and the original intent was to use these bullets with that rifle. They are fine bullets, but unfortunately my rifle doesn't like anything put through it...including Hawk Jacketed bullets. I'm pretty much at a loss at this point as to what's wrong with this rifle. It's certainly not the bullets. The mold casts beautifully and has been a joy to use. I had it cut in brass btw. But yes, to your question, those bullets were originally intended for the 50-100-450.

From My original correspondence with Tom:

"Cartridge will be the 50-100-450. Will do the chamber in a Browning 1886 Levergun.

I would like a two cavity mould out of brass. Two different designs in the same block. I will likely size to .512 using Lyman #2. I would like to keep the weight between 425 and 475 gr., preferably between 425 and 450gr, though I wouldn't complain if it ran up to 475gr.

I would like your opinion on the following designs, with a nose profile change...50-440B and 50-440G, with a nose profile similar to the 46-335B. I like this nose design for feeding ease, and the closeness to original bullet appearance in that cartridge. "

One other note, If I had it to do over again, I would shorten the nose to crimp groove dimension by about .020". My particular rifle isn't long enough in the carrier to run the cartridges through the chamber without seating as deep as possible. An extra .020 or .030 would have made a world of difference. As it is, it's on the ragged edge in OAL for the action with this bullet. I found out later that the bullet profile of the original had a somewhat more tapered radius which helped immensely in the feeding.

Ed

[451whitworth]

Kansas Ed,
i would like to know about your trials and tribulations with your rifle. i too have a converted Browning 1886 but it feeds .35" nose length bullets fine.

[Kansas Ed]

Whitworth,
Groups run from 2 to 3 FEET at 50 yards. I have currently tried 23 different loads using four powders, 5744, TrailBoss, 3031, SR4759; two makes of primers, and 4 different bullets. Bore slugs .5085. Cast are sized to .512, jacketed are at .510. Bullet weights are 450gr GC and 450gr plain based both from the Accurate Mould, and 450gr and 350gr Hawk. Sights are tight. Velocities were run from 1215fps to 1774 fps. Recoil at the bench can get pretty brutal...as in I usually wear blue shoulder for a week. But, I eat the pain, and don't flinch. All loads also shot by another shooting partner with the same results. I've tried TP for a filler also with no results. Barrel was rebored and rechambered from the original 45-70. Forearm was shaved to remove any stress points. Barrel was lightly polished after about 15 different loads were tried without success. Still no go. I've checked the crown and all seems to be in order. Besides, crown issues I've typically seen are with smaller lighter calibers...crown issues don't seem to be as great when the slug gets into the heavies.... but thats' just my experience. The gent who did the rework is puzzled, as he's one of the most knowledgeable '86 guys out there and has done dozens of these conversions successfully. He's supposed to ship me some of the bullets from his original Winchester mould to try. I am going to ship him some of my cast bullets and brass to try in one of his rifles also. Hopefully that will put any question of components to rest. He is more than willing to re-do the gun again if we can't find a solution. I'm stymied...I've had some guns that didn't respond quickly before, but this one is past my abilities right now.

The last ditch effort which I haven't shot yet, was to buy a new measure and scale...just in case. I have had some inconsistencies lately with another caliber which has me puzzled too...so I bought a new RCBS electronic measure/scale.

As to the feeding issues...that bullet profile when loaded to the back end of the cannelure on the cast bullets, can occasionally catch on the underside of the barrel threads, causing a inconvienient jam...nothing that a short restroke on the lever won't take care of, but it can be an issue in a fast second shot if you aren't careful with your OAL. It's not a problem for me, as I know the max OAL that this action wants. It all has to do with the radius on the mould I ordered. I do know that the original Winchesters were all hand converted and modified from the factory to handle this round...so I'm not surprised that there can be individual issues with them. By the way...who did your conversion?

Anyone with Ideas please chime in....I'm getting ready to order some Cerrosafe and do a chamber cast out of curiosity in case anyone is thinking that direction...

Ed

[451whitworth]

Kansas Ed,
what rifling twist does your barrel have? Since you are spraying jacketed bullets, my guess is it has to be a barrel problem. I used a new heavier contour 1-20" barrel from the Montana Rifleman. They refered me to a 'smith who specialized in modifying the action's innards. For the life of me i can't remember who it is off the top of my head as it was back in the '90's. I'll have to dig out the paperwork. The action is very smooth and feeding is flawless. I did the machine work of dovetailing the barrel for the forearm hanger, magazine tube ring and front sight. I machined a new forearm hanger bracket for the larger diameter barrel. I also fitted the forend wood and cap to the larger diameter barrel and drilled/tapped the action for a receiver sight.

[Kansas Ed]

Yes, I forgot to add that....I'm using 1-26" That was based on John Taylors recommendation of between 1-24 and 1-28
.

Ed

[MT Chambers]

What diameter are these dropping at? Just wondrin' if they'll work in my 50/90 Sharps(.512"min.)

[Kansas Ed]

I specified .512 with Lyman #2, but Tom will make to order. If you want them at a different dia, just communicate that in your email. He makes each mould to order.

Ed

[451whitworth]

my moulds are cut at .515" because thats what fills the throat of my 1886.