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Thread: 357/44 B&D or .357/.44 Bain and Davis history

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    dragon813gt's Avatar
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    357/44 B&D or .357/.44 Bain and Davis history

    I love the article about NY that's in the American Rifleman PDF. It seems this country continues to ignore the facts four decades later.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master ohland's Avatar
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    I don't have any ARA Bulletins, in my surfing, one post surmised that the ARA Bulletin faded away with publication of Handloader magazine.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master ohland's Avatar
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    Exclamation G&A OCT 1977 "The .357/.44 Dreadnaught" by Dan Cotterman article arrived

    Guns&Ammo Oct 1977 "The .357/.44 Dreadnaught" by Dan Cotterman
    http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/310/3...o_1977_Oct.pdf

    Last edited by ohland; 01-08-2013 at 08:07 PM.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master ohland's Avatar
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    Exclamation Update, added AMP loads, AMT articles

    http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/310/3...and_Davis.html

    Looked for 44 AMP brass, found some (supposedly) at Grafs. Added the Speer #9 357 and 44 AMP pages. Added the article Feeding the .44 Auto Mag by George Nonte.

    If there is anything more on the 357 AMP, I'd love to hear about it.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master Greg's Avatar
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    ohland-

    Alliant has published .357 Maximum loads in the 2004 Reloaders Guide
    Page 46 – Silhouette Data

    http://glarp.atk.com/2004/2004Catalo...ntPowderSM.pdf

    It was in some older Reloaders Guides also, but the 2004 is still available online

    Older editions that I’m aware of include two different 1996’s and an undated edition that I think is from 1998
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  6. #26
    Boolit Master Greg's Avatar
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    Moonie-

    Gary Reeder has a few different bottle-necked proprietary rounds

    I had looked at the .356 GNR

    but my idea was for it with the 358156 HP for a flat shooting Antelope round. The 356GNR doesnt have much of a neck so

    of course if I could overcome the insidious habit of eating on a regular basis, Id have a 357 Auto Mag

    Ive wanted one for about 43 years.
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  7. #27
    Boolit Master ohland's Avatar
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    Blue Dot, 2400 and Reloder 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    ohland-

    Alliant has published .357 Maximum loads in the 2004 Reloaders Guide
    Page 46 – Silhouette Data

    http://glarp.atk.com/2004/2004Catalo...ntPowderSM.pdf
    Looked at it, good catch, but those loads are with Blue Dot, 2400 and Reloder 7. I've got my Power Pro 300-MP downstairs in the basement.... I sent a note to Alliant asking for some loads for the 140gr FTX and 300-MP.

  8. #28
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    In your OP you asked for scans of Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders. My Vol. II shows the .44/357 Davis, designed by Keith Davis. Ackley again states his lack of faith in bottleneck revolver cartridges, and lists these loads worked up in an 8" S&W revolver.
    113 gr bullet, 14 gr of Unique for 2170 fps Max.

    140 gr bullet, 12 gr of Unique, 1460fps.

    148 gr bullet, 21 gr of 2400; 1900fps Max. 24 gr of 4227; 1703 fps Max. 18 gr of 2400; 1377.

    158 gr bullet, 19 gr of 4759; 1418 fps. 20 gr of 2400; 1483fps Near Max. 22 gr of 4227; 1490 Max. 17 gr of 2400; 1235 fps. 20 gr of 2400; 1483 Max.

    150 grain cast, 22 gr of 2400; 1970 Absolute Max.

    I listed the data as it is shown in the book, with no attempt to organise it. Sorry i have no abilty to scan the page, hope this might help somehow.
    Raisin' Black Angus cows, outta gas, outta money, outta tags, low on boolits, but full 'a hope on the Rocky Mountain Eastern Slope!
    Why does a man with a 7mag never panic buy? Because a man with a 7mag has no need to panic!

    "If you ain't shootin', you should be reloadin' if you ain't reloadin' you should be movin', if you ain't movin', somebody's gonna come by and cut your head off and put it on a stick!" Words to fight by, from Clint Smith

  9. #29
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    Just finished rechambering a 9x19 12" rifled barrel insert that I have stubbed into an older 12 gauge shotgun receiver that I built into a rabbit gun last year. I'm hoping now its become a fully efffective woods and field-walker rifle. 357-44 B&D should be good for everything from deer to rabbit out to 100 yards.

    Nice thing about keeping old Handloader magazines on a shelf...June 2015 article "357-44 B&D Loads in a T/C Encore" by Stan Trzoniec was just waiting to be re-opened tonight for review and getting some loading tips for modern powders in this cartridge.
    Last edited by bruce drake; 12-12-2017 at 11:44 PM. Reason: handloader mag reference data
    I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
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  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Wow, talk about a blast from the past! To quote Bogie from the Maltese Falcon “it’s the stuff dreams are made of.” I read about this conversion in Super Blackhawks & N-frame S&Ws and had my mind take off in flights of fancy. Like so many of my projects it never got beyond the idle dreaming stage, but it was fun while it lasted. Thanks for (reawakening) the memories.

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  11. #31
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    AAH, Froggie, I dream of this stuff in little single shot rifles - but not being a gunsmith or having those tools ... . They stay dreams.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  12. #32
    Boolit Master




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    Right now, the fight is finding affordable dies for this cartridge. Lowest price right now at CH4D at just under $100. I may just size down some 44 Mag brass with a 7.62x39 sizer and then a 357 Magnum carbide sizer just to then fireform to 357-44B&D and then just neck-size from then on.
    I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
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  13. #33
    Boolit Master Steve E's Avatar
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    I currently have the following chambered in 357 x 44 B&D, Marlin 94, Encore rifle barrel, Encore pistol barrel and a Ruger Blackhawk in 357 x 44 B&D with cylinders in 357 Mag, 9mm, 9 x 25 Dillon, 357 Sig and 38 Super. The powder I found best for me in the B&D has been Hodgon Lil'Gun. One neat load in the Marlin 94 is 125 gr jhp bullets zipping out at about 2300 fps. I would really love to connect one of those with one of the local Coy Dogs, it'll probably turn it inside out pretty quick. I found that in the revolver setback is not a problem if each chamber is kept oil free and clean, if I take it shooting without cleaning each chamber in the cylinder it will have some setback and tie up the cylinder occasionally.

    Steve.......
    Last edited by Steve E; 02-26-2018 at 03:14 PM.
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  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy
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    Steve E, Notice you said you have a Blk Hawk in 357-44 B&D. I have a few extra 9mm cylinders for my 357 3 screw. Can that 9mm be rechambered ??? Who would you recommend? Thanks

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    AAH, Froggie, I dream of this stuff in little single shot rifles - but not being a gunsmith or having those tools ... . They stay dreams.
    Wayne, about 15 years ago I built on on the Handi rifle. It's a great shooter with 150 grain. 358" boolits. If I can get them. I have exhausted all of my Speer hoard.
    I have a Black Hawk chambered so also.
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  16. #36
    Boolit Master Steve E's Avatar
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    Ray

    That is exactly what I did all my extra calibers on was a 9mm cylinder, would I recommend it, yes. You will have some setback with hot loads or oily chambers but most of the time it is easy to extract cases. Be prepared it is loud. Go for it.

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  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks Steve, I was afraid maybe the cylinder walls would be too thin.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master McFred's Avatar
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    Attached are 'modern' handload data for the .357B&D I've stumbled across over the last couple years. One is published by Hornady in its native PDF format, the other is an older Accurate Arms PDF that you could download from their site once upon a time.

    Finally, here's a screen capture of a 2013 ADI (Australian powder maker) 6th-edition electronic load guide; page 69 FWIW:



    You can do your own powder cross-reference.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  19. #39
    Boolit Master Steve E's Avatar
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    Mine has been working fine for ten to fifteen years and I have run some pretty stout loads through it (rifle loads from my Marlin), normal range practice is usually with less than full throttle loads. Best powders for me has been H110 and especially Lil'Gun which seems like it was made for it.

    Steve.........
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  20. #40
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    Dang it! I new I'd regret letting that SBH in .357 go! I just foolishly figured just how many .357 do I need?
    It's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years (Abe Lincoln)

    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government. George Washington

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check